• November 2nd @ The Phillies

    Posted by on November 2nd, 2009 · Comments (22)

    Damn. Soooooo close. But, not even the Yankees Comeback Kids of 2009 could pull this one out…

    Well, Commander Cashman & General Joe elected to go with “Choice One” when it came to starting pitching assignments for this Series, which I said, a week ago, was “crazy – because you’re asking everyone to pitch on 3-days rest at some point. ” And, now we’re heading to Game Six.

    And, between now and then, the second-guessing will be aplenty

    A.J. Burnett, on three-days rest, pitching on the road, was terrible for the Yankees in this one. Cliff Lee, pitching on full-rest, kept the Yankees under enough control to for his team to be on the winning side of the ledger.

    Next stop: Pettitte and Pedro in Game Six.

    And, by the way, Andy Pettitte will also be pitching on three-days rest – something he hasn’t done in the regular or post-season since 2006.

    If the Yankees somehow manage to screw up Game Six, then they’ll turn to CC Sabathia for Game Seven – pitching on three-days rest for the second time in a row this World Series. Is that going to the well too many times? Well, let’s hope not…because Pettitte will not be available for Game Seven. And, do you want Burnett backing up CC, with A.J. having just two-days rest, in a Game Seven situation? That means it will be Gaudin, Aceves, Coke and Robertson following Sabathia if he gets an early hook in Game Seven.

    No pressure Andy…really…no pressure…

    We won’t even bring up your history in Game Six situations

    Comments on November 2nd @ The Phillies

    1. JeremyM
      November 2nd, 2009 | 11:46 pm

      Well, they didn’t go down without a fight at least.

      A couple of the key plays that will probably get overlooked to em were Jeter not getting the tag on Utley on the stolen base and Burnett hitting Victorino after the Phillies were willing to give up an early out.

      Steve, didn’t Andy slay the game 6 “curse” in the ALCS?

    2. JeremyM
      November 2nd, 2009 | 11:47 pm

      * Should’ve been to me, not to em.

    3. November 2nd, 2009 | 11:49 pm

      JeremyM wrote:

      didn’t Andy slay the game 6 “curse” in the ALCS?

      We can only hope! 😉

    4. November 2nd, 2009 | 11:51 pm

      Only me. I’m scheduled to be in Philly tomorrow AM. That should be torture. (Who knew? This trip was planned weeks ago.)

    5. Tresh Fan
      November 3rd, 2009 | 12:41 am

      Well, maybe it’s just because I’m old; but does anyone else think Girardi left Burnett in there too long? No, I am not kidding. Consider these examples from the 1960 WOrld Series:

      GAME 1—Art Ditmar starts the game and faces just 5 batters, allowing a walk, a double and two singles with a couple stolen bases tossed in before Stengel removes him from the game with a runner on 1st, one out and a 3-0 Pirates lead.

      GAME 3—Now it’s Pirates skipper Danny Murtaugh’s turn. He pulls starter “Vinegar Bend” Mizell after 5 batters with the bases loaded, one out and a 1-0 Yankees lead.

      GAME 7—Bob Turley starts the game by retiring the first two batters. Then he issues a base on balls and gives up a gopher ball for a 2-0 Pirates lead. He then retires Roberto Clemente on an infield pop-out to close out the 1st. He takes the mound for the 2nd, surrenders a single to the first batter he faces and is immediately yanked from the game.

      They weren’t “pussy footing around” then. As a pitcher you either had it or you didn’t. And if you didn’t you were coming out—the earlier the better.

    6. Evan3457
      November 3rd, 2009 | 1:03 am

      Had they pitched Gaudin yesterday in Game 4, they might have lost both yesterday and today, and been down 3-2 coming home, instead of up 3-

      And, by the way, Andy Pettitte will also be pitching on three-days rest – something he hasn’t done in the regular or post-season since 2006.

      Well, yeah, more or less. He pitched on 1 days’ rest to beat the Twins in April of 2007. Of course, that was following a 1 inning relief appearance, not another start.

      Me? I’m more worried about the fact that the Phillies are damn good rather than the days of rest. But I might be wrong about that judgement. We’ll see.

    7. November 3rd, 2009 | 7:48 am

      @ Evan3457:

      What about?

      Game 1 – 10/28 – Sabathia
      Game 2 – 10/29 – Burnett
      Off Day – 10/30 – None Needed
      Game 3 – 10/31 – Pettitte
      Game 4 – 11/1 – Sabathia (on 3-days rest)
      Game 5 – 11/2 – Gaudin
      Off Day – 11/3 – None Needed
      Game 6 – 11/4 – Burnett
      Game 7 – 11/5 – Sabathia (on 3 days rest) or Pettitte

    8. ken
      November 3rd, 2009 | 8:39 am

      Before last night’s game I thought that using AJ in that game was a huge mistake, for all the reasons everyone has talked about. However, now I am giving Girardi more credit than I ever thought he deserved: I think that he was concerned about an AJ meltdown in game 6. He would rather have Pettitte on short rest than AJ on full. And the Yank’s bullpen is clearly superior.

    9. ken
      November 3rd, 2009 | 8:43 am

      And one other point: If Gaudin pitched in Game 5 and AJ in Game 6 then Pettitte would only have started one game out of 7. He is too good to allow that to happen.

    10. MJ
      November 3rd, 2009 | 9:06 am

      ken wrote:

      And the Yank’s bullpen is clearly superior.

      I don’t agree with that. The Yanks’ bullpen — outside of Rivera and Marte — has been lousy in the ALCS and WS. Hughes/Chamberlain have stunk to high heaven and they were supposed to contribute the most.

    11. MJ
      November 3rd, 2009 | 9:12 am

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      @ Evan3457:
      What about?
      Game 1 – 10/28 – Sabathia
      Game 2 – 10/29 – Burnett
      Off Day – 10/30 – None Needed
      Game 3 – 10/31 – Pettitte
      Game 4 – 11/1 – Sabathia (on 3-days rest)
      Game 5 – 11/2 – Gaudin
      Off Day – 11/3 – None Needed
      Game 6 – 11/4 – Burnett
      Game 7 – 11/5 – Sabathia (on 3 days rest) or Pettitte

      The problem with that is that you give Gaudin (bad) as many starts as Pettitte (mediocre to good). No sense giving a bad pitcher like Gaudin a chance to start a game, especially when you consider the following:

      Career vs. RHB: .249/.318/.409
      Career vs. LHB: .293/.389/.433

      2009 vs. RHB: .224/.293/.380
      2009 vs. LHB: .296/.408/.415

      Rollins, Victorino, Utley, Howard and Ibanez are all lefties. That’s 5 of the first 6 hitters in Philly’s lineup. No way you can trot out Chad Gaudin against all those lefties and expect to win.

      What this shows us is that the Yanks need to go out and sign a reliable 4th starter for next year. It doesn’t have to be John Lackey (whom I don’t care for and don’t want to spend the money on) but it has to be someone better than Gaudin that could’ve pitched Game 4.

    12. YankCrank
      November 3rd, 2009 | 11:16 am

      Why would we ever want Chad Gaudin starting a game in the World Series, especially when it eliminates a second start of Andy Pettitte?

      I can’t believe Yankee fans are actually trying to make an argument that Girardi and the Yankees made a mistake by not starting Chad Gaudin against the Phillies in Philadelphia.


    13. MJ
      November 3rd, 2009 | 12:11 pm

      @ YankCrank:
      Agree completely. Gaudin is just not good enough to warrant a WS start against a lefty-hitting team like Philly and certainly not at the expense of Andy Pettitte, who is his superior in every way.

      I do think this highlights a need for the Yanks to find another starter but since there’s nothing they can do about this now, we just gotta hope that Andy Pettitte can keep it together tomorrow night and nail it down for us.

      I don’t feel good about a Game 7 scenario, even with CC. I love him but he’s had nothing in his two WS starts and I can’t imagine he can skate by on fumes in a third start…

    14. #15
      November 3rd, 2009 | 12:45 pm

      Along the lines of YankCrank… The Yankees aren’t a great team right now. They are very good. Maybe the best in baseball, but they are a stud starter and a stud outfielder with wheels away from great. I still prefer the higher caliber starters on 3 days rest than a weaker starter on ~ 20+ days. If the Yankees lose out at this point the problem will be that there was no good option for a 4th starter (something that could possibly have been addressed at the deadline). While AJ clearly spit the bit, if the bullpen gang hadn’t given up some gratuitous runs, the Cardiac Kids would have been right there late.

      One other observation from a catcher obsessed fan… Molina, out of a girth issue, is setting up locations way too early. When he sets up early and deep inside on a lefty batter like Howard, with a man on first, the runner knows that Jose is blocked out by the hitter and the throw to second will be much, much harder. Also, the scouts see this as well. The batters can feel Jose set up (and he never, ever, shifts) and that takes away one element of uncertainty.

      I think Stinky Pete’s House of Horrors continues tomorrow. His act was fresh for one night after being out of the AL for so long, but the Yankees have too much stick for him to pull that off two times so close together. There will be a lot of guys sitting on change-ups and breaking balls. Also, please pitch around Utley, for crying out loud. The guy has been killing thigh high fastballs in the middle of the plate and Howard is on the verge of setting a major league record for strike outs in a WS,

      Picking up on yesterday’s thread…. Someone should have put one in Utley’s ass last night. He’s too comfortable at the plate and he needs to be aware that he might have to move his feet (in a hurry) every so often.

    15. ken
      November 3rd, 2009 | 3:27 pm

      YankCrank wrote:

      Why would we ever want Chad Gaudin starting a game in the World Series, especially when it eliminates a second start of Andy Pettitte?

      Because it results in Pettitte pitching on short rest.

      I think you had to concede game 5 to Philly. Then you ask yourself: do I want Pettitte on short rest or AJ, at home where he’s better, on full rest in game 6.

      So, it’s not really about Gaudin as much as who you want in game 6.

    16. ken
      November 3rd, 2009 | 4:16 pm

      From John Heyman on SI.com:

      “Longtime Yankees postseason star Andy Pettitte told several teammates he had absolutely “nothing” after hanging in six innings to win Game 3, and now he is being entrusted to summon something better with only three days’ rest in Game 6 Wednesday. Pettitte is the all-time winner in postseason play with 17 victories, but if a younger A.J. Burnett lost so much in the three days from Game 2 to 5, there is wonder even within the Yankees clubhouse about how this will all work out.

      Pettitte won more respect from teammates for hanging tough in a game where he not only didn’t have his best stuff but by his own private accounts to longtime friends actually had zero. Zip. Nada.”

      Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/11/03/phillies.alive/index.html?eref=writers#ixzz0VpiyyOVl
      Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription

    17. MJ
      November 3rd, 2009 | 4:18 pm

      @ ken:
      You can never concede a game in the World Series, ever. Also, keep in mind that the Yanks tried to mount a comeback in yesterday’s game. Although it’s hard to imagine a pitcher doing a worse job than AJ did yesterday, it’s possible that Gaudin would’ve done worse, thus making the comeback even more unlikely.

      I hear what you’re saying and I agree that it’s a bit scary to know that the Yanks have to rely on starters going on short rest. I also agree that if the Yanks had a decent 4th starter then maybe the tenor of this conversation would be different.

      But Gaudin is simply not good enough to pitch in the World Series in general and his bad splits vs. lefty hitters make him particularly ill-suited to face the Phillies in particular.

    18. MJ
      November 3rd, 2009 | 4:24 pm

      @ ken:
      He had nothing left after his start but that doesn’t mean he won’t have anything for tomorrow night. John Heyman is treating tomorrow’s start as if it were taking place 45 minutes after Pettitte came off the mound on Sunday night.

      I’m not saying Pettitte should be expected to be lights out or even brilliant but there’s a chance that he’s at least good enough to keep the Yanks in the game. And if he’s not…well…then he’s not.

      The Yanks made the decision not to start Gaudin on the basis that he stinks versus lefties and they didn’t have anyone better than him that they could turn to. I can’t blame Girardi for thinking that 70 or 80% of AJ and Pettite’s best is still better than 100% of Gaudin’s best.

    19. Corey
      November 3rd, 2009 | 4:37 pm

      @ MJ:
      Should also be noted that on normal rest, Andy throws a bullpen and a side session, whereas on short rest he doesn’t throw on the side at all.

    20. MJ
      November 3rd, 2009 | 4:48 pm

      @ Corey:
      Yep. So tomorrow is effectively his bullpen session, albeit with much more on the line.

      Am I nervous that Andy throws a stinker? Absolutely. Do I think the Yanks might end up losing this World Series after all? Yep. But it’s really on Cano and Teixeira to make sure that doesn’t happen. Those two have gotten a free ride over the past 14 playoff games…

    21. JeremyM
      November 3rd, 2009 | 7:01 pm

      After enduring the A-Rod dramas over the last 6 or so seasons, it’s insane how Teixeira’s struggles have slid under the radar in the mainstream. He has been beyond awful at the plate and really needs to wake up fast. Cano looked a bit better in game 5, but double aside, Teix still did not look good.

    22. November 3rd, 2009 | 11:10 pm

      […] over the team’s “sort rest” plan in this World Series. Via Jon Heyman with a h/t to WW reader “ken” – Longtime Yankees postseason star Andy Pettitte told several […]

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