• November 2009 Survey Question #2

    Posted by on November 9th, 2009 · Comments (42)

    Please consider taking the following poll:

    {democracy:82}

    Thanks in advance. And, please feel free to add comments on your opinion in the comments section below.

    Comments on November 2009 Survey Question #2

    1. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 9:43 am

      To the two (and counting) folks that voted for “Someone Else Not Mentioned Here”, I’m curious to know who that someone else is that you had in mind.

      I want no part of Holliday/Bay because I know both will get terrible contracts. Everyone else on the list outside of Damon is either not a LF by trade, is old, stinks or is overrated.

      I voted for Damon simply because I could live with him out in LF for another two more years at $12M/year. It’s not a bargain by any means but I’d rather pay over-market for a short contract than have him bleed us for three or more years, given his age, etc.

      As for the other Yanks on this list (Melky/Nady), Melky belongs in CF for the Yanks as long as they don’t have a better CF option and Nady belongs elsewhere. Brian Cashman needs to convince him to decline arbitration when he’s offered it because I would much rather have the draft picks.

    2. November 9th, 2009 | 10:09 am

      “Someone Else Not Mentioned Here” = a trade, say, like Milton Bradley? (Not saying that’s what I would do. Just saying that maybe some here want a trade for a LF rather than a FA or in house solution.) Or, maybe they’re thinking Austin Jackson? But, really, he’s not ready – yet. Maybe in June/July?

    3. YankCrank
      November 9th, 2009 | 10:31 am

      This would be my ideal option for LF next year, at this point or until somebody proves to me it’s a dumb idea:

      1) Resign Johnny Damon for 2 years, $22-24 million
      2) Sign a stopgap CF like Mike Cameron
      3) Work Johnny in and out of left field with Melky, and work him in the DH rotation with Jorgy, A-Rod, Jeter.
      4) With this option, I guess you have to let Matsui walk. Sucks.

      I know that’s easy and maybe complicated, but I don’t see a single guy on that list who i’d want playing LF for the Yankees over Johnny Damon. With that in mind, Johnny is just an atrocious outfielder and is declining faster than anybody I can remember out there. So if he’s back, DH him as often as you can

    4. GDH
      November 9th, 2009 | 11:01 am

      I may be in the minority, but right now I’m for bringing both Matsui and Damon back, Damon for max 2 yrs and Matsui for 1 year or 1 year and an option. Reason being, it worked this year – what’s changed?

      We still have prospects/players vying to step in in case of injury or rest or needed defense. Let Molina go (sorry AJ) and bring up Cervelli, who is a better hitting and running backup for Jorge. Instead of rotating DH you have a rotating, veteran bench, when players need to be rested.

      I’m for re-signing these two bats, who both want to play in NY and are proven, and focusing again on pitching this offseason.

    5. Corey
      November 9th, 2009 | 11:15 am

      YankCrank wrote:

      This would be my ideal option for LF next year, at this point or until somebody proves to me it’s a dumb idea:

      1) Resign Johnny Damon for 2 years, $22-24 million
      2) Sign a stopgap CF like Mike Cameron
      3) Work Johnny in and out of left field with Melky, and work him in the DH rotation with Jorgy, A-Rod, Jeter.
      4) With this option, I guess you have to let Matsui walk. Sucks.

      I know that’s easy and maybe complicated, but I don’t see a single guy on that list who i’d want playing LF for the Yankees over Johnny Damon. With that in mind, Johnny is just an atrocious outfielder and is declining faster than anybody I can remember out there. So if he’s back, DH him as often as you can

      I would do almost the exact opposite.

      1) Seeya Damon!
      2) resign Nady to a make-good, incentive-laden 1 year deal with a team option for a second year at a reasonable price.
      3) Re-sign Matsui to be the DH/PH 2010 Ruben Sierra special on a 1 year deal with team option for 2011
      4) Stay the hell away from Cameron
      5) See how long you can go with an OF rotation of Nady/Swisher/Gardner/Cabrera and bring up Jackson when needed.

    6. jrk
      November 9th, 2009 | 11:32 am

      @ Corey:
      Seems VERY risky.
      1) who knows what we’ll get outta this crew? Damon is a sure thing to bat at least 280, give us a bit of pop, score a lot of runs, and drive ‘em in too. I know his defense sucks, but the offense going with those 4 would be extremely compromised.
      2) Who says Jackson will be able to handle big league pitching? What if the 4 man crew fails, and THEN Jackson fails? Then we’re just shit outta luck.

      Just seems far too risky

    7. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 11:34 am

      Corey wrote:

      I would do almost the exact opposite.
      1) Seeya Damon!
      2) resign Nady to a make-good, incentive-laden 1 year deal with a team option for a second year at a reasonable price.
      3) Re-sign Matsui to be the DH/PH 2010 Ruben Sierra special on a 1 year deal with team option for 2011
      4) Stay the hell away from Cameron
      5) See how long you can go with an OF rotation of Nady/Swisher/Gardner/Cabrera and bring up Jackson when needed.

      Nady delayed his surgery until when? June? July? It takes a year for a player to resume baseball-related activities after Tommy John surgery so why would anyone think Nady will even be ready to play baseball come April?

      As a result, the idea of Nady as part of an OF rotation simply won’t work. The Yanks won a World Series with their relatively modest OF rotation of Damon/Cabrera/Gardner/Swisher and there’s no reason why they can’t do so again.

      I agree that the Yanks should stay away from Mike Cameron. I also agree that bringing Matsui back on a 1 year deal with a 1 year option (and a modest but not insulting buyout) is the way to go. If he reverts to his injury-laden 2006-2008 form, the Yanks can cut ties with him with no issue. If he’s as productive in 2010 as he was in 2009, the Yanks would lay claim to having the best DH in the AL East.

      Austin Jackon wasn’t ready after the 2009 season. He’ll need to prove that he’s MLB-worthy with a good start at AAA in 2010. Maybe we see him in June, maybe in July, or maybe not until 2011.

    8. Corey
      November 9th, 2009 | 11:36 am

      MJ wrote:

      Nady delayed his surgery until when? June? July? It takes a year for a player to resume baseball-related activities after Tommy John surgery so why would anyone think Nady will even be ready to play baseball come April?

      This is for a pitcher, not a position player.

    9. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 11:37 am

      To those who want Holliday…yuck. He stunk up the joint in the AL from April-July. I know it was only two-thirds of a season in a bad park for hitters but it still raises enough of a red flag for me that I wouldn’t want to commit to five-plus years at $100M+ for him.

      The Yanks could arguably retain Damon for two seasons for 75% of the cost it would take to get Holliday. Seems smarter to pour those extra resources into another starter (or two).

    10. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 11:39 am

      Corey wrote:

      This is for a pitcher, not a position player.

      Even if it’s half that time — six months — you have to worry about skill attrition. Nady was never that good to begin with. Either offer him arbitration and hope he walks, in search of a multi-year deal (and get the picks) or just let him walk.

    11. Corey
      November 9th, 2009 | 11:41 am

      MJ wrote:

      Corey wrote:
      This is for a pitcher, not a position player.
      Even if it’s half that time — six months — you have to worry about skill attrition. Nady was never that good to begin with. Either offer him arbitration and hope he walks, in search of a multi-year deal (and get the picks) or just let him walk.

      I’d rather risk Nady on a 1 year deal then be stuck with Damon on multiple years.

    12. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 11:55 am

      Corey wrote:

      I’d rather risk Nady on a 1 year deal then be stuck with Damon on multiple years.

      Other than your hatred of Damon (and my own of Nady), I don’t see how or why. We’re not talking about a five year deal for Damon, we’re probably talking about a two-year deal. Why is one year of the unknown with Nady preferrable to two years of a pretty good idea of what you’ll get with Damon?

    13. #15
      November 9th, 2009 | 12:00 pm

      Any chance the Rays let Crawford walk? Probably not.

      If not, Damon would still be the best option, but only for an Abreu ’09 type deal. The reality of last year’s market is that ageing outfielders compensation is way down and incentive clauses are in. I’d like to see the same kind of deal for Matsui. One year, 5 mil base and 3-5 mil in incentives and a club option for 2011 with a buyout. I doubt JD will have too many options. His shaky defense will only work in places that can overcome it with lots of runs and strong pitching. He’s not a Scoscia type player. Too old and not good enough on D. Can’t see Boston bringing him back. No other teams will be offering much more than I’ve proposed. If you can sign Damon to that kind of deal, then keep Gardner as the 4th outfielder. Matsui? He’s only got value in the AL. If he can earn 8-10 mil if he stays healthy, I doubt he’ll get more anywhere else. Wave off Molina for Cervelli. A good chance to get younger and more athletic. Hairston and Hinske have to go. I’d work on Pena to make him a super sub, i.e., infield and outfield. Bring up Ajax at some point (why they chose to bring up Guzman instead of him baffles me). Sign Andy for another rodeo.

      If all of that can work, it seems you save ~ 2 mil on Molina, ~3 on Matsui, and ~ 3 on Damon. ~ 5+ on Nady. Use that money to go get Lackey and ring up # 28. Look, the Yankees have a chance to win maybe 2 or 3 times in the next ~ 4 years. After that, there will be a rebuilding phase that has to play out. Go for the throat. Right now, while Mo is still Mo and Jeter is still winning Hank Aaron awards.

    14. #15
      November 9th, 2009 | 12:04 pm

      BTW, I flew up from Texas for the parade (my first). What a great experience.

    15. YankCrank
      November 9th, 2009 | 12:07 pm

      MJ wrote:

      To those who want Holliday…yuck. He stunk up the joint in the AL from April-July.

      To add to that, look at some of the 2011 free agent class:

      Mauer, Crawford, Halladay, Cain, Cliff Lee and a couple guys named Jeter and Rivera.

      Please, save your money for better players and don’t jump the gun on the Holliday/Bay garbage pile.

    16. Tresh Fan
      November 9th, 2009 | 12:47 pm

      I voted for Jason Bay. I don’t know. I guess it’s just the rascal in me…nah nah nahnah nah! :)

    17. November 9th, 2009 | 1:23 pm

      My, how times have changed…

      …no one suggesting moving Jeter to LF in 2010 and playing Pena at SS.

    18. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 1:23 pm

      YankCrank wrote:

      To add to that, look at some of the 2011 free agent class:
      Mauer, Crawford, Halladay, Cain, Cliff Lee and a couple guys named Jeter and Rivera.
      Please, save your money for better players and don’t jump the gun on the Holliday/Bay garbage pile.

      Agreed.

    19. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 1:40 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      My, how times have changed…
      …no one suggesting moving Jeter to LF in 2010 and playing Pena at SS.

      Jeter wouldn’t do it so there’s no point in even suggesting it. He wouldn’t move off SS for the best SS in baseball. Why would he move off SS for a 25 year old rookie?

    20. Raf
      November 9th, 2009 | 2:00 pm

      MJ wrote:

      Steve Lombardi wrote:
      My, how times have changed…
      …no one suggesting moving Jeter to LF in 2010 and playing Pena at SS.
      Jeter wouldn’t do it so there’s no point in even suggesting it. He wouldn’t move off SS for the best SS in baseball. Why would he move off SS for a 25 year old rookie?

      And to be fair, Jeter’s defense has improved from what it used to be.

    21. YankCrank
      November 9th, 2009 | 2:08 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      My, how times have changed…

      …no one suggesting moving Jeter to LF in 2010 and playing Pena at SS.

      Joba to the pen! Jeter to LF! Yanks will never win a Championship with A-Rod! A-Rod isn’t clutch! Cano is lazy! Swisher is a 4th outfielder!

      Yankee fans bother me almost as much as Red Sox and Mets fans with the crap they say…almost

    22. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 2:21 pm

      YankCrank wrote:

      Joba to the pen! Jeter to LF! Yanks will never win a Championship with A-Rod! A-Rod isn’t clutch! Cano is lazy! Swisher is a 4th outfielder!

      Fortunately the Yanks won a championship with an extremely clutch A-Rod. Not only that, but Swisher was the regular RF.

      I have no idea if Cano is lazy or not but he certainly has lapses. It’s OK, almost everyone does. Cano’s total no-show in the playoffs annoyed the crap out of me (as did the fact that he didn’t run out some balls during the WS) but overall I’m happy with who he is and how he plays. He’s a big reason why the Yanks won 103 games this year and it’s nice to stick it in Pedroia’s ear that the Yanks have every bit the 2B the Red Sox do.

      As for Joba — assuming the Yanks won’t take my advice and force Joba to earn his rotation spot the way the Red Sox did with Buchholz — I’m definitely joining the bullpen bandwagon. I haven’t seen enough from him to make me think that he can be a good starter. Three good starts in July and a handful of good ones last year don’t constitute iron-clad evidence that he’s a good MLB starter. Not when he only has two pitches and only one of them gets in there for called strikes. You can’t be an effective starter with a two-pitch repertoire and only one “in the zone” pitch.

    23. YankCrank
      November 9th, 2009 | 2:33 pm

      MJ wrote:

      As for Joba — assuming the Yanks won’t take my advice and force Joba to earn his rotation spot the way the Red Sox did with Buchholz — I’m definitely joining the bullpen bandwagon.

      From RAB today:

      “Joba Chamberlain had two distinct segments to his 2009 campaign. For the first three months — and not coincidentally, through his first 110.2 innings — he was masterful. After 20 starts, Joba was 7-2 with a 3.58 ERA. Although he was walking around 4.1 per 9 innings, his strike out rate was hovering around 7.88 per 9 IP.

      Ater reaching his career innings high, though, Chamberlain’s effectiveness fell off the table.”

      I will never disagree with any Yankee fan who says Joba was maddeningly ineffective this year, to the point where he’s almost hated. From July on, he was awful, and with that being our lasting memory of him I can see where fans would either want him in the pen or on a bus to the minors.

      I also feel it’s a good case that up until his career high innings, he was the effective Joba we had all expected. If you ask me, you give the kid every chance to be a starter. If he fails, sucks, gets hurt or just can’t cut it, throw him in the pen.

      His 2010 will go a long way to prove where he should be. The training wheels will be off and he will pitch freely. If the results are the same as we saw from July on, I will join you MJ.

    24. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 3:04 pm

      @ YankCrank:
      I am embarking on a very detailed Pitch FX project which will track all of Chamberlain’s pitches for the entire 2009 season. I am not convinced that what RAB posted today tells the whole story.

      I’m not going into this project with an intention of proving something, I am just curious to see if my thoughts that Chamberlain is a two-pitch pitcher with only one pitch he can throw for strikes or if that’s my imagination.

      I expect that if my own impression of him is justified, I won’t care what anyone else tells me, there is no way a pitcher like that can survive in the big leagues unless he’s Randy Johnson…

    25. YankCrank
      November 9th, 2009 | 3:11 pm

      MJ wrote:

      I’m not going into this project with an intention of proving something, I am just curious to see if my thoughts that Chamberlain is a two-pitch pitcher with only one pitch he can throw for strikes or if that’s my imagination.

      I guarantee it’s not your imagination. From August on he did exactly what you said, which was throw his fastball for a strike and try to bury his slider…to nobody’s surprise. He was awful.

      It wasn’t revealed in what I said, but I agree with a lot of what you say about Joba. He needs to work his ass off this winter, drop some weight, get in better shape, show up ready to work and learn to use all his pitches again like he did in ’08. If he needs to start it in the minors, so be it, but the Joba we saw for most of ’09 was not the Joba we saw throw light out in Fenway in ’08. If he can’t handle that, or is uncapable of doing that, he’ll be a damn good two-pitch reliever.

      Let me know what you come up with.

    26. #15
      November 9th, 2009 | 3:29 pm

      MJ,
      Isn’t the whole point of the slider to get guys to chase it out of the strike zone? Doesn’t matter if he can throw it for strikes, what matters is the batters are kept off balance not knowing if the pitch will be straight, or end up in the left side batter’s box. I’d like to see him add a 2 seamer.

    27. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 3:40 pm

      #15 wrote:

      MJ,
      Isn’t the whole point of the slider to get guys to chase it out of the strike zone? Doesn’t matter if he can throw it for strikes, what matters is the batters are kept off balance not knowing if the pitch will be straight, or end up in the left side batter’s box. I’d like to see him add a 2 seamer.

      Don’t agree. A slider (or any breaking pitch) is designed to give a hitter a different look than a fastball. John Lackey features two curveballs: one that he throws low for swinging strikes and one that he drops in the strikezone to keep hitters honest about the other version of the same pitch. In fact, this was perfectly on display in Game 5 of the ALDS when Lackey had his good curveball working and he was able to throw a curveball for strike 1 against many Yankee hitters.

      I’m not saying Chamberlain’s slider is bad, I’m saying that it’s not as effective when it’s ALWAYS thrown low and away to righties. A batter with good pitch recognition and any sort of memory of previous at-bats would know that if he spots a slider, he should take it all the way. If Chamberlain can refine the pitch, however, or go back to using the curveball which he seems to have abandoned somewhere along the way (remember when he was touted as having four pitches?) then he could use it to keep hitters honest so that they would look for at least 2 different types of pitches for called strikes.

    28. Tresh Fan
      November 9th, 2009 | 3:54 pm

      @ MJ:

      Little John Franco was fond of saying that a pitcher needed only two pitches to succeed:

      A stike that looks like a ball, and

      a ball that looks like a strike.

      Joba currently has two pitches:

      A ball that looks like a ball from the bleacher seats, and

      a strike that’s middle of the plate and belt high.

    29. GDH
      November 9th, 2009 | 3:57 pm

      Cano, Kennedy and one of Hughes/Joba, and the kitchen sink to the Mariners for Felix. Let Pena play 2B.

    30. November 9th, 2009 | 4:08 pm

      Tresh Fan wrote:

      Little John Franco was fond of saying that a pitcher needed only two pitches to succeed:

      Mo Rivera says you only need one pitch. ;-)

    31. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 4:08 pm

      @ Tresh Fan:
      Agree, on both counts.

    32. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 4:09 pm

      @ Steve Lombardi:
      Lucky for us, it happens to be the same pitch that turned water into wine. All other mortals need more than that… ;-)

    33. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 4:11 pm

      @ GDH:
      I’d gladly start a package with Chamberlain and Montero and build from there for King Felix.

    34. GDH
      November 9th, 2009 | 4:43 pm

      @ MJ:
      They’d probably need an impact starter to build that package, and to get Felix I’d dump Cano in a heartbeat. I’m curious to see what Montero can do, but if Felix is on the line, I’m not that curious.

    35. #15
      November 9th, 2009 | 4:51 pm

      Sure guys, the front door slider needs to be in the mix, but the strike out pitch, the weakly hit groundball pitch, the pop-up pitch…. will generally be the one that gets the batter to extend out of the zone. Throwing a 3-2 or 3-1 slider or hook for a strike is generally the hallmark of the elite pitchers. Very few younger guys, like Joba, do that regularly.

      MJ, If Joba had Lackey’s stuff, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

      On that topic, if Lackey wants to play in NY, we should get him. He’s younger than Doc H. and Doc would cost us Hughes or Joba, plus, plus, and a big contract. I’d much rather see us grab for a 2 behind CC, than add a cheaper 4 or 5. Moving AJ to the #3 spot gives us a huge edge over the comp. Wang will be a work in progress. Might be a year before he gets back to near form. Remember he struggled before the arm problems. Still, he’s young enough to take some risk. I don’t see how Hughes figures in the mix for the rotation. We’d be looking at the Phil Rules all year long. We, i.e., Joba, the Yankees and the fans, will finally get one (last?) look at Joba, uncaged, as a stater. If he can’t pull it off this year over the course of the entire season, he’ll be a late inning guy, and I think he’ll be a good one. Not Mo good, mind you, but who the hell is?

    36. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 5:12 pm

      @ #15:
      Joba HAD Lackey’s stuff, he just lost it somewhere along the line in 2009. His fastball and slider got plus-plus grades and his curve was ranked a plus pitch too.

      Joba hasn’t achieved Lackey’s consistency but, to get to that point, he’s absolutely got to add the ability to throw a version of his breaking pitch for strikes.

    37. MJ
      November 9th, 2009 | 5:16 pm

      @ #15:
      Forgot to add, I don’t advocate signing Lackey. He’s not likely to be a bargain and he hasn’t gone over 200 IP since 2007. We took a chance with Burnett but I don’t think it’s a great idea to give Lackey a Burnett-level contract, which he’d surely ask for.

      I’d offer Lackey 3Y/$36 tops and he can take it or leave it.

    38. Scout
      November 9th, 2009 | 5:59 pm

      @ Steve Lombardi:
      Just an aside about poll methods: People routinely favor the names in the order in which they appear, running out of steam/interest as they go down the list. So the results are partly a reflection of the ordering of the names.

    39. GDH
      November 9th, 2009 | 6:15 pm

      I would expect the Red Sox to be in the Lackey Mix, along with several others. If I were the Phils I’d be all over that guy. He’ll get a big contract, 4-5 years, not worth it for the Yankees. There was a rumor that the Yanks might actually release Wang, but I’d find that hard to believe. Although it would not surprise me if that injury ends his career as we knew it. The team should not count on a contribution from Wang. I wonder if Arizona would part with Haren for the right mix.

    40. 77yankees
      November 9th, 2009 | 9:05 pm

      Damon on a one year deal for 2010.

      Carl Crawford for LF – Opening Day 2011.

    41. JeremyM
      November 9th, 2009 | 9:36 pm

      Well, one thing is for sure- Cashman is going to have to earn his money this offseason. I don’t envy him this year.

    42. thekid
      November 11th, 2009 | 1:39 pm

      What do you think about Justin Duscherer and Scott Posednik?

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