The Big Yanks, Tigers, D-backs Trade Rumor
Via the fellas from FOX -
The Yankees, Diamondbacks and Tigers have discussed a three-way trade that would send Tigers center fielder Curtis Granderson to New York and right-hander Edwin Jackson to Arizona, major-league sources say.
The talks are at an impasse, according to one source. The proposed deal is being pushed by the D-Backs, but was rejected by at least one of the two other teams, the source says.
While trade talks are fluid and the names involved could change, sources say the following scenario is under discussion:
• The Yankees would receive Granderson from the Tigers and one or two prospects from the Diamondbacks.
• The Diamondbacks would get Jackson from the Tigers and right-hander Ian Kennedy from the Yankees.
• The Tigers would get right-hander Max Scherzer from the Diamondbacks, and center fielder Austin Jackson and left-handed relievers Phil Coke and Michael Dunn from the Yankees.
When I first heard this rumor, my heart sank.
I wanted to take some time before commenting on it – but, I cannot wait any longer.
I guess this means the Yankees like Curtis Granderson a lot. And, I guess it means they’re not as high on Austin Jackson as some think they are…
Update, 12/8/09, 1:45 pm EST: According to Buster Olney, a source with knowledge of negotiations says Granderson deal is close to being completed.
Very happy this deal didn’t go through.
When I heard about this trade, I came to the conclusion that AJAX is not the star in the making all the hype purports him to be. Does anyone remember Tabata? In essence, this sends another message. Is the GM going to get one of the dinosaurs like Godzilla or Damonic or one of the “relative kids on the block” like Jason”I’d die to play in Seattle” or Matt” The Pop Fly Dropper” Holliday ? I like Granderson BUT I don’t like him that much.
Why? The names involved don’t elicit a strong reaction from me. Kennedy, Jackson, Dunn and Coke? I’m surprised that Kennedy is still in the mix of any deals to be made after missing time with injury. I would think that an acquiring team would wait to see if he’s healthy first.
I don’t think it means that they’re not high on Jackson; you have to give a little to get a little.
Either way the Yanks go is fine with me.
Could be Cash’s way of letting the Blue Jays know there are other interests in Ajax. “If you want him in a Halladay deal, you’d better act soon.”
I still don’t like Curtis “Windmill” Granderson. Too many K’s.
I am really kinda against giving up any prospects at this point. I think we have a pretty good darn team and to send away some good young talent.
Raf wrote:
I disagree, he was hyped as part of the future plan. Scouts project him to be a ‘nice’ player and nothing more. BTW, from what I’ve heard AJAX alone is still not enough to get Granderson alone,you’d have to give up other players as well. You have to give to get? Granderson is a good player BUT is he the position player equivalent of Doc Halladay? Absolutely not…..
#15 wrote:
The Blue Jays have outfield prospects like Travis Snider, have catching prospects AND have a lot of good young pitching. I don’t think Anthopoulos gives two sweet shits about AJAX. Their needs lie in the infield especially 3rd and SS and to a lesser degree 1st. You give them golden prospects for those three positions and you can get Halladay . Even still in terms of whose ultimately has the better prospects, that’s Boston, so Anthopoulos is not nervous over Ajax !
clintfsu813 wrote:
Our Man in Tallahassee I agree with you wholeheartedly. For all the shit I give Cash Man, he’s attempting to make the team younger. By trading for older players like Doc(which I see as unlikely to be brutally honest) and getting dinosaurs back it might work against this team in the long run. Now, if you are trading a slew of youth for a great young pitcher like Queen Felix, that’s a different story, otherwise why give up talent for a Granderson………
butchie22 wrote:
Regardless, my point is that because the organization is considering dealing him does not necessarily mean that they’re not high on him.
I’m just not a huge fan of giving up four young players for a player who isn’t exceptional at anything. He’s not a great base stealer, not an OBP guy, not a great defender and his numbers other than HRs have been declining since ’07.
I’m open to having my opinion swayed here, but right now I just don’t like it. Feel free to prove me wrong.
@ YankCrank:
No swaying here..I dont like it either.
Looks like talks are heating up again…
“Talks”? More likely rumor/bullshit as usual, lol
SI says it’s a done deal pending medical stuff. Not sure how to feel on this one, but I think I like it.
T-Kep says its close to being done too. Can someone explain the positive in this deal. I havent heard it so far, lol.
clintfsu813 wrote:
Fangraphs has something up on the trade
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-big-trade
“From the Yankees perspective, this deal is almost too good to be true. Heading into his age 29 season, Granderson is a legitimate +4 win center fielder signed to a bargain contract for the next four years. I ranked him as the 22nd most valuable asset in terms of trade value in baseball over the summer, and the Yankees are getting him for a variety pack of role players. He instantly makes their team better, giving them a legitimate all-star center fielder who should thrive in Yankee Stadium. For as much as the Yankees have a payroll advantage, they continue to win because Brian Cashman targets the right players. Granderson is a fantastic acquisition for them.”
“A+ for the Yankees, who continue to show that they know what they’re doing. Not a bad deal for Detroit, who needed to save some cash. But man, I’m sorry for D’Backs fans, who just saw their team screw up.”
Well, gotta give Cashman credit. With the Swisher and Granderson deals he’s definitely getting this team younger and more athletic.
@ Raf:
Fangraphs assessment is overkill. Granderson has a number of pluses, including youth, speed, and power, and he is reported to be an excellent clubhouse guy. All good. But he also has very clear negatives, including an inability to hit lefties and a high K-rate, plus a couple of years trending downward. The deal is certainly not a clear-cut stroke of brilliance for Cashman.
On the other side (and this is a plus), the Yankees did not give up much. In the AL East, Kennedy is rotation filler; he should do better in the NL West. I was never high on Jackson, who seemed another iteration of Gardner/Cabrera — some talent but far from a complete player and unlikely to ever be a star. Granderson is much better now and should be for the duration of his contract.
Looks like a deal is done pending a medical review. The Yanks just took away alot of Damon’s leverage with them.
Scout wrote:
Those couple of years were coming off a career year. Even so, last year’s “off” year came off a season where he had a .276 BABIP. If he replicates his 05 or 06 seasons, he and the Yanks are good to go.
Our outfield defense of Swishy, Grandy and Melky will be better than we’ve had in a while (not saying too much there). Decent to perhaps plus arms in both center and left fields and a servicable (if somewhat inconsistent) arm in right. When was the last time we could say that?
Not thrilled about the offensive side. Too many K’s from Grandy, streakiness from Swish and middling performance from Melky. Good thing our infield offense is off the charts. I guess this means that the Yankees will try to sign the cheaper of Damon or Matsui for a DH role. I might give a slight edge to Damon in that role because we don’t have many options in the 2 hole. Posada behind A-Rod? Then Robbie and then the three outfielders?
Maybe the Yankees didn’t bring up Ajax late in the year (Freddy Guzman has a ring????) because they were hiding him from the league to keep his trade value up.
Raf wrote:
Sorry, Raf if they had high hopes for him a la Melky they would have kept him. as I had said he didn’t project for power and that’s something that supposedly concerned the Yankee front office.
YankCrank wrote:
Crank, do you like or not like this trade? a few hours ago you were relieved that this didn’t happen , now you’r opening up a bottle of champagne for Cash Man? Please explain this turn of events!
Scout wrote:
Scout , I’ve give you credit you laid out the good ,the bad, the ugly… along with our man in Tallahassee, Clint, I don’t like giving up youth BUT the cost was too high for CG( a player who I do like). With Swisher they gave up Betemit who was no spring chicken ,so that made out pretty well with that one BUT the Granderson trade is different. CG also seemed to drop a lot of routine fly balls in September as well. He looked really sloppy in the field. as Scout mentions, I think that will probably bring back Damonic , where I differ is that they would bring JD back over Godzilla though.
butchie22 wrote:
High hopes has little to do with anything. Melky could’ve as easily gone in the deal, but maybe the Tigers or D-Backs didn’t want him. Maybe he wasn’t available.
There are a lot of players that don’t project for power, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the front office is or should be concerned. Definitely not one that was running Brett Gardner out there on a semi daily basis.
The Yanks got a starting centerfielder, signed to a reasonable contract for players that are easily replaced. CG plays CF and moves Gardner/Melky to LF/RF (depending on what they do with Swisher).
I can’t complain, been moaning a long time about an OF full of AAAA players, saw Granderson a couple of times this year and while he may not be the greatest CF alive he is notches above what we were throwing out there. Hoping with a linchpin in place our mediocre OF will play better as a whole, as our infield did after finally getting a real 1b.
Even with hearing Dunn is out of the deal, I still feel like this is a lot to give up for Curtis Granderson….but I’m not against it.
I also don’t see where the D-Backs lose in this deal. They now have a front end of Haren-Jackson-Webb(assuming he comes back healthy). That’s pretty damn good, add in the NL West and you have a contender. Don’t believe me? See the 2009 SF Giants.
Raf wrote:
Raf, your spin on Ajaxis totally off no matter what you say! AJAX is gone because the Yankees evaluated him and he wasn’t part of the plan . That is the message they sent by trading him…..You can play the habitual contarian role all you want BUT the Yankees’ actions speak far louder than their words on Ajax. They wouldn’t trade Hughes, Melky, Kennedy or Wang for Cabrera BECAUSE they wanted to get younger and evaluated those players in a more positive light than acquiring Johan in the end. That was the message CashMan and Co sent with NOT trading those players both
explicitly and implicitly. Nuff said.
I like Granderson BUT was he worth this package or better yet could the Yankees have obtained another player with these prospects? To be brutally honest, CG was a butcher in the field in Sept of this year. His strikeout rate was high as well. He’s a good to very good player , however he’s not a world beater by any means. Those who are trumpeting this as some kind of triumph are doing so very prematurely I feel.
both
Corey wrote:
Corey, the D-Backs came out on the best end of this bloody deal, mate. Kudos to them for get Jackson. That is a formidable 1-2-3 to be sure. I don’t know about some of the other variables on that team, but EJ gives them an edge that’s for sure……. In that division, the Mets could be a contender…ummm OK maybe not Los Metropolitanos BUT you know what I mean !
butchie22 wrote:
And that doesn’t mean that “they’re not as high on Austin Jackson as some think they are…” It means that the Tigers like Jackson enough that they’re willing to trade an established ML CF’er for him.
There’s no “message.” It’s a baseball trade, nothing more than that.
Ah, no. They felt that the price was too high for Santana. Bodies and they’d have to sign him to a huge extension. It had little with them to do with the Yanks wanting to get younger.
This is consistent with what Cashman has done in the past, whether it’s trading for Swisher, for Knoblauch, for Abreu and a few other trades I’m sure that are slipping my mind right now. Getting an established, all-star caliber player for spare parts.
butchie22 wrote:
Haha, fair enough butch!
I spent basically all day looking at the trade and looking at the numbers, and after all that I can say i’m ok with it.
Granderson is a good player. Not great, not exceptional, but a good player. They were asking Buster Olney what he heard about the Yanks thought process with this deal, and Olney said the Yankees clearly understand Granderson has pluses and minuses. He sometimes takes bad routes to fly balls, he strikes out a lot, he has trouble against lefties…this we all know are negatives. But the Yankees love his power and how it fits in Yankee Stadium, love his speed, love his versatility and his aggression. He’s also young and cheap, and they think it fits well in the Yankees outfield plans of getting younger and more athletic. Nick Swisher over Bobby Abreu was the first step in this plan, now we see C-Grand moving in.
As for me, I like the deal for this reason: He’s a hell-of-a-lot more valuable in CF than Melky Cabrera. I’m also ok with losing IPK (back-end starter, hurt last two years and down in Yanks depth chart at this point), Coke (reliever who gives up a ton of long balls) and AJax (they say if he lived up to his full potential he’d be a Curtis Granderson-type, so why not trade for who he may be one day?).
We have another 20-home run type hitter in our lineup who can play + defense. Now we have a lot of options for LF that don’t include HAVING to sign a Damon/Holliday/Bay/Cameron. For this, we’re better off.
Corey wrote:
It isn’t, when you look at it. The players the Yanks gave up are easily replaced. Jackson isn’t much different from Melky/Gardner, Coke is a bullpen arm that can/will be replaced, and as nice as Kennedy may be, he’s recovering from surgery and is probably the 7-8th guy on the depth chart.
Sorry, my evaluation of IPK was wrong. He was ineffective in ’08, not hurt, and we all know what happened to him in ’09.
I also wish IPK the best of luck in Arizona. It’s the NL West, his pitching style will fit very well out there and I hope it brings him much success.
I also hope AJax develops into everything everybody thought he would be, and has a long and successful career.
Raf wrote:
This is true. I know we all fall in love with our own prospects, but Coke is just another replaceable bullpen arm, Kennedy is way down the depth chart and AJax has a ton of potential but isn’t a complete player yet. As much as he can be a Mike Cameron or Curtis Granderson one day, all he is right now is a player with some skill set but not a full set…much like Melky or Gardner.
I don’t like this move at all. I’m really down on Granderson because he can’t hit lefties. I don’t even care that they are giving up AJAX. I just think that Granderson is one of those players who’s more hype than anything and he’s not worth overpaying for now or down the road. I’d rather see them keep Damon for another year or two and sign someone like Marlon Byrd on the cheap to play CF/LF/DH.
Kennedy was hurt and ineffective in 08. Ribcage strain, if I remember right.
I wish Kennedy & Jackson all the best in their new organizations.
Food for thought:
2009 strike-outs:
Swisher 126
Teixeira 114
Posada 101 (in only 101 games)
A-Rod 97 (in only 124 games)
Jeter 90
Granderson 141
Cameron 156
I feel a refreshing breeze, rather as though someone turned on a magic line-up fan, cooling us on those hot August days.
antone wrote:
1) The Yanks play lefties a max of 30% of the time. Why look at only 30% of the picture when evaluating him?
2) He technically had a down year last year, is there any thoughts he could bounce back?
3) *cue in cheesy Paul O’Neill comparison and his problems hitting lefties*
Because come playoff time Granderson is going to be useless against lefties, especially late in games. He also is not an OBP guy and will be batting 2nd. I think he’s a downgrade compared to Damon offensively. The defense will help I guess if he was going to play LF, but I’m assuming he’s going to play CF where he’s probably the same as Melky.
I’m thinking the lefty thing is going to be more of an issue during the playoffs. I agree that he brings value to the team during the regular season, but I don’t really want him batting at the top of the lineup in the playoffs with his approach hack-a-way approach. That is why I’m not a big fan of acquiring him. If he is going to bat 6th or 7th then maybe I would like it a little more.
antone wrote:
Stop comparing him to Damon. For all we know, Damon can be back next year.
Raf wrote:
Raf, quite incorrect on all counts. what trade did you just watch? I apologize for being so bloody sarcastic BUT I can’t help it in this particular case. NO team gives up a prospect that they feel has a future in their organization, especially when the GM is trying to save money in the long run. AJAX was so hyped by the Yankees ,that the fans thought they were getting the second coming of Benire! BUT from what I’ve heard from the reportage percedent to the finalization of this trade, the Yanks’ front office wasn’t high on him. and unless you have a bloody contact in that front office,mate then drop it! If you do then I’d love to see that they employ a fellow contrarian such as yourself. ajax, Choke and Kennedy were spare parts??UNh??/ In whose universe? I don’t get that analogy at all you lost me on that. Betemit for Swisher was one thing BUT this trade? Not an apt analogy at all.
Scout wrote:
Scout, I see you haven’t fallen prey to the spin on this yet. CG is a very good player that strikes out a lot and can be a butcher in the field. His OBP is only .319 which was the second lowest OBP for someone batting where he batted for the Tigers. This trade is a mixed bag. In terms of opportunity cost, they could have used the prospects in another deal, they missed their mark in trading for CG with this group of players IMO.
antone wrote:
Antone, Good to see you again,mate. If Damonic doesn’t come back then CG will bat at the top of the lineup. I think that St Derek or Damonic will be 1-2 and CG will bat lower in the batting order.
Raf wrote:
Coke is filler, I don’t care for him either way. I do, however, not like this fact because if the Yankees decide down the line that they need a pitcher, we have but 1 truly top tier position prospect left to trade. And we all know I have a fan-crush on him, and don’t want to see him go.
In any case, I could definitly, definitly, see Granderson coming back from a down year to have a year more in line with the 2 prior. He is this year’s Nick Swisher (albeit more expensive).
YankCrank wrote:
I hope not.
Corey wrote:
Corey he potentially could be swisher Sweet part Two BUT was he worth the cost for a relatively low OBP, high strike out rate and jusding from last year diminished skills in the outfield? That is the question……
Look, I’m not the biggest Phil Choke fan by any means, but I think the Yanks gave up too much for CG in the end. Those are pieces they could have used in another deal……
butchie22 wrote:
Agreed. If they thought that much of Jackson, this wouldn’t have happened. Especially since we’re talking about a CFer. Those are the players you built teams around for decades.
butchie22 wrote:
I would re-sign Matsui, and we can have a lineup of:
1-Jeter
2-Cano
3-Tex
4-A-Rod
5-Po-Po
6-Matsui
7-Granderson
8-Swish
9-Melky
All this outrage certainly reminds me of the Swisher deal last year. So does this:
“Part of the problem for Granderson was his batting average on balls in play, which fell to .275 in 2009 (career avg. before 2009 was .330+). This makes him a good candidate to have a largely-improved year in 2010.”
Granderson is a good player, and a large upgrade in CF over Melky. Step off the ledge, Yankee fans.
Let’s also not forget this gem:
Whenever the man speaks think of almost the near opposite.
butchie22 wrote:
I agree with this last statement as evidenced by that exact comment you’re quoting,
I cant stand this trade. i think they gave up way to much for a player that isnt that great. he doesnt nothing great. Granderson hits .250 with 150Ks and a is going to have a obp of around.320. he can run and hit with power but the yankees dont need anymore power. they needed a role player that could hold the spot for a year til austin jackson is ready. austin jackson will be an all star and i think he could very well be ROY next year since he will play everyday in det. coke i could careless bout kennedy didnt have a spot in the organization but will be a very successful pitche rin the nl. but the yankees just picked a very overpaid player in granderson when they couldve gone and got a much cheaper and a better fit to the lineup in someone like derosa. derosa also is a much more versatile type player. will hit .275 with 20-25 hrs not strike out nearly as much as granderson and can play pretty much every position which is huge. i feel the yankees r doing exactly what they did from 2001-2008 where they started makin sensless trades with their young talent for player who ddint fit well on the team. very disappointed in cashman and the yankees right now
and i can think of other trades to attempt to use coke in… go after lindstrom from the marlins throw coke in there and some decent prospects… go get a relife pitcher instead a .250 hitting cf so dumb i can on forever how bout this stupid fucking trade
I think we should wait and see what the Yanks do in LF before we judge this trade. If they keep Melky and start him in LF then this trade is basically a wash, but if they acquire someone else to play LF or keep Damon then I think I will think of this trade in a more positive light.
Right now I’m thinking this is Granderson in CF and Melky in LF and no Damon, which I see as a wash except you get younger.
Although I have to say, Melky is still young and there’s a chance he’s still not fully developed as a hiiter. I thought this was interesting comparing Melky and Damon through age 24:
Melky: .269 AVG/.331 OBP/.385 SLG/88 OPS+
Damon: .275 AVG/.330 OBP/.405 SLG/89 OPS+
Now I’m not saying Melky is the next Damon but it’s clear that he could still develop into a better hitter much like Damon did.
and the fact that theyre thinking bout using him in the 2 hole thats would be real smart put a guy that hits .250 and strikes out 150 in the 2 hole…. hope someone does pass their medical and this trade falls through
Just to be clear, my point on the strike-outs in the line-up was intended as a warning against adding Cameron to the mix. My view on the Granderson trade, as I said above, is that it has its pluses and minuses. I believe the Yankees gave up fair value for what they got. Granderson will be a useful addition, but I think an off-season should be judged as a whole and Cashman is certainly not done yet.
Scout wrote:
Cameron is not on the team, and probably won’t be.
With all the K’s you mentioned above that are actually on the team, which team was only 2 K’s away from having the lowest number of team K’s in the whole, entire American League?
That’s right; it’s yer beloved New York Yankees.
BOHAN wrote:
Oh, come on, BOHAN…lighten up there, will ya’?
He’s not a .250 hitter. He’s a .270+ lifetime hitter. He has power draws walks, has excellent speed, and is a good defensive centerfielder.
Scout wrote:
Sorry; replied to the above mentioned post before I read this one. People should read your last sentence, especially the 2nd clause, and pay heed.
butchie22 wrote:
It’s understood. The trade I just saw was a pretty good one on the Yankees’ part
You care to explain how this move saves money in the long run, when Jackson would’ve been cheaper?
A team will give up a prospect that has a future in their organization based on a need. The Sox could use Hanley Ramirez but they decided that they could use Josh Beckett more. It doesn’t mean that they fell out of favor with Ramirez, it means a deal that was too good to pass (at least in their eyes) came along.
How ’bout you name your sources? If you don’t have a credible source, then drop it, mate. The moves the organization has made over the years have been pretty transparent.
It’s okay, I’ll explain.
Jackson really isn’t much better than the Gardner/Cabrera hybrid platoon, and chances are he would’ve spent 2010 in AAA getting the call later in the season, or earlier depending on injury
Coke, has been replaced by Dunn, for better or for worse, and Marte’s already in the pen. Coke is a loogy, and they’re by definition spare parts
If you can show me where Kennedy slots on the depth chart, and how he is projected (back of the rotation starter/AAAA pitcher) you can see how he’s considered to be a spare part
This is a slam dunk trade for the Yanks. It’s not even close.
@ Evan3457:
granderson draws walks??? .320 obp and 150 k’s really proves that… coulda use coke and kennedy to get something that fits better…. maybe a legit setup man for mo like lindstrom from the marlins…. didnt need to get granderson coulda got someone like derosa that woulda fit better on this team in my opinion… granderson number have steadily declines in the past few years minus his hrs… which we dont really need anymore of out of the 2 hole (which hell probably hit) and he cant hit lefties if his life depended on it and theres some real good lefties in the AL starters and relievers… whats going to happen when he comes up in a big spot in a late game and they bring in a lefty to face u going to pinch hit him??? thats exactly what u traded some good ballplayers for a guy ur going to have to pinch hit for late in the game… and having to sit him against lefites?? gave up way to much for someone like that and hes not that good of a defensive OFer…. i just think u coulda got someone like derosa who is going to perform as good if not better and is much more versatile… and grew up in the area
@ BOHAN:
Here ya go
Yes, you read that right, for the past 3 years, only Ichiro! and Holliday have been better.
what is that fantasy value??? thats awesome cause i care bout how valuable he is in fantasy this is fantasy its real life…. hes gunna suck against lefties take horrible routes to balls (he might make great plays every now and then but 85 percent of the time its cause he took a bad route) what im trying to get at is hes not a 2 hitter or a leadoff hitter and thats where theyre gunna play him and theres people out theres hows just as good and are more versatile could got more bang for the buck in my opinion and filled more holes with those players we gave up… we gave up 3 players to get one very barely above avg player in my opinion
No, it’s not fantasy value, that’s cold hard data there based on the work that they’ve done.
Unfortunatley (or fortunatley, depending on your point of view), your opinon isn’t based in reality. Granderson is younger and better than the guy he’s replacing, he’s better than the guys who’ve played CF for the Yanks since Bernie couldn’t play the field.
Don’t worry, the Yanks and Granderson will be fine.
so your going to tell me granderson is better then beltran, sizemore, mags, markakis, braun, bj upton, crawford, victorino, and manny??? (as much as i hate him he is better then granderson) if u think hes better or more vauluable then any of those guys then u dont watch the game and just look strictly at stats. and i dont believe in that stupid sabermetrics crap. just watch the game and that ll tell you what people r good at. asnd granderson isnt a good fielder and not a great all around hitter
Prove that the guys you’ve mentioned are better than Granderson over the past 3 years. Sabermetrics has nothing to do with it, and because you don’t understand the metrics doesn’t make them crap.
Have you watched every inning of every game that these guys have played? Or did you settle for ESPN or MLBN highlights?
@ Raf:
Sometimes, arguments are hopeless and not worth carrying out because the understanding of both sides are on completely different ends of the spectrum.
This may be one of them.