Eiland: Joba Is Better In The Bullpen
Via John Harper –
This is supposed to be the year we all finally find out what Joba Chamberlain can do as a starter without wearing that electric dog collar, otherwise known as the Yankees’ innings-restriction plan. So why the competition with Phil Hughes and others for the fifth starter spot?
Pitching coach Dave Eiland’s answer to that question Thursday made it clear that, as much as the Yankees talked up Chamberlain’s potential as a starter the last couple of years, they are no longer convinced that’s where his future lies.
“I think we’ve all seen the difference in him when he starts and relieves,” was the way Eiland put it.
“I’ve told Joba that if he wants to be a starter for us, he has to have the same mound demeanor, the same aggressiveness, and repeat his delivery as a starter the way he does as a reliever,” Eiland said.
“That’s who he is. He’s got to be an aggressive, come-right-at-you, power-type guy. Sometimes when he started he’d fall behind, he’d try to show all his pitches. Yes, he does have four pitches but he doesn’t have to use them in every at-bat.”
Wow. That’s about as blunt as it gets.
But can Chamberlain give Eiland what he’s demanding? He said Thursday he understands the need to bring a more aggressive mentality to the mound as a starter. But he also maintained that starting and relieving call for two different styles.
“You can’t be the same person,” Chamberlain said. “It’s two different adrenaline rushes. It’s two different approaches. Out of the bullpen you only have to face a guy once. As a starter you’ve got to get him out three or four times.
“These guys are so good, you’re not going to be able to get them out the same way twice. So it’s the same feel for pitching, but it’s a different approach. To try and stay in that (mode) for six or seven innings is a lot different than going at it for one.”
Remember last season, when discussing the issue with Worm Killer Wang, Eiland said “I can’t go stand behind the mound with him during the game. He’s got to go out there.”
Maybe we should start calling Dave Eiland “Dr. Tough Love”?
I find it hard to believe that after everything they did last yr with Joba this yr they will put him in the pen full time.
I think hes a future closer myself because obviously his stuff doesnt translate over a full game. As showed by his velocity while starting.
Hes just not the same pitcher for whatever reason. Maybe he figures it out. You got to give him that shot after what you put us all thru last yr watching 3 inning starts right?
Joba will get every opportunity to start in 2010. If he flops, then at least we’ll know more about him than we ever have in the past. With innings limits and the idiotic Joba Rules, it was never going to be easy to fairly evaluate Chamberlain the starter.
Also, with Vazquez/Pettitte potentially leaving New York after 2010, there will still be an opportunity for Chamberlain to remain in the rotation in 2011, even if it’s more out of need than out of aptitude.
Ya know, I’m pretty surprised no one has written about how the Yankees might have snuffed out Joba’s aggressiveness as a starter by making sure he doesn’t let his emotions fly with the fist pump (or any other derivation).
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I think hes a future closer myself because obviously his stuff doesnt translate over a full game. As showed by his velocity while starting.
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What makes you say that? He was pretty solid over the first few months of the season as a starter. Once he hit his innings limit, that’s when it went downhill.
Corey Italiano wrote:
Sorry, I meant once he hit his career high in innings, that’s when it was downhill.
Further, Joba’s biggest problem is his predictability with regard to pitch selection. So what makes you think if he goes back to the pen, where he would use his 2 best pitches (that were the most predictable) that he would do any better?
Jake1 wrote:
He’s not the same pitcher becuase its 2 completely different types of pitching. If he went out there and threw as hard as he could (as you do in relieving) he’d be dead after probably 3 or 4 innings, if he’s in really good shape.
I think they really need to give joba a chance this year to start. let him start the season in the rotation he isnt pitching well then put him back in the pen. somehow they need to keep hughes ready to start to. maybe putting him in the minors to start the season and build some innings would be the best way and if joba is pitching well bring him up for the 2nd half and have him be the 8th innings guy. for the first half i think u got plenty of arms out there that could be a bridge to 9th. robertson can do the job, i think aceves could do it, if marte is the marte we saw in the playoffs he’ll be able to do it. i dont think they’ll need a tru 8th inning guy like hughes til the second part of the season. thats the most important part.
“You can’t be the same person,” Chamberlain said. “It’s two different adrenaline rushes. It’s two different approaches. Out of the bullpen you only have to face a guy once. As a starter you’ve got to get him out three or four times.
I think the first time around he really needs to establish his fastball. He should be able to get outs using primarily using his fastball for the first time trhough the order. Then the 2nd and 3rd time start using your breaking balls and change up more. His problem last year was he tried to “trick” hitters the first time through the order. That made him get behind in the account and walk and throw fastballs down the middle. Which leads to not pitching well, to put it kindly.
BOHAN wrote:
Regardless of the velocity, if you know a 2 strike slider is coming why would you swing?
@ Corey Italiano:
cause it looks like a fastball out of the hand… i was just trying to make a point that people still dont see to realize that you’re not going to see the same velo from him if he’s starting as to if he’s in the pen. Its physically impossible. i wasn’t making any kind of comment on his predictability.
@ BOHAN:
Ah, I thought you were trying to go against my point, my bad.
If I were a ML hitter, with 2 strikes, I’d take anything that looks like it could be that 2 strike slider from him until he proves me wrong and k’s me with a heater. I watched a lot of games, and he’s rarely, if ever, done that.
Remember last season, when discussing the issue with Worm Killer Wang, Eiland said “I can’t go stand behind the mound with him during the game. He’s got to go out there.”
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I remeber that very clearly. I think Eiland stinks as a pitching coach. Poor Wang felt he had to go out there and pitch. This is a 19 game winner (times 2) who was given no support. He wound up pitching hurt.
BOHAN wrote:
Yeah, it was pretty obvious to everyone except Joba.
Corey Italiano wrote:
Usually a stikeout slider isn’t thrown for strikes