• Rough Start For Yanks SP Nothing New In Cashman Era

    Posted by on April 26th, 2010 · Comments (13)

    Call this one* “Rough starts to a season by Yankees starting pitchers since Brian Cashman has been G.M. of the team” -

    .

    So, what is that?  Something like 18% of the time under Cashman that a Yankees starting pitcher has gotten off to a rough start of the season?  What’s that on average?  Something like once per season a Yankees starting pitcher, since Brian Cashman has been G.M. of the team, has gotten off to a rough start?

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    * the query for this list: From 1998 to 2010, Playing for NYY, as Starter, In team’s first 30 games, (requiring IP<=6 and ER>=4), sorted by greatest number of games in a single season matching the selected criteria

    Comments on Rough Start For Yanks SP Nothing New In Cashman Era

    1. MJ Recanati
      April 26th, 2010 | 1:11 pm

      Not sure what your point is here or why you mention Cashman by name. What would he have to do with it?

    2. Mailman
      April 26th, 2010 | 1:35 pm

      And this compares to a league average for rough starts of …..?

      Pre Cashman, the Yankees averaged ….. rough starts each year?

      Another Cashman-focused, contextless piece of “analyisis”. What a surprise!

    3. April 26th, 2010 | 1:37 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Not sure what your point is here or why you mention Cashman by name. What would he have to do with it?

      Is he not the current GM of the team?

    4. April 26th, 2010 | 1:39 pm

      Mailman wrote:

      And this compares to a league average for rough starts of …..?

      Why would you want to use the league average? I can understand comparing it to all teams with the same revenue and resources of the Yankees. But, do you really suggest that the Yankees should be measured with the same view that the Royals, Twins, and Rays should be viewed?

    5. Tresh Fan
      April 26th, 2010 | 1:44 pm

      It’s funny for Steve to come to Cashman’s defense here. That only one of a team’s five starters gets off to a rough start each year is indeed an accomplishment. Kudos to Cashman and thank you, Steve, for pointing this out.

    6. Raf
      April 26th, 2010 | 1:44 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Not sure what your point is here or why you mention Cashman by name. What would he have to do with it?

      The “Cashman can’t assess pitching” meme?

      Anyway, I’m sure pitchers struggled at the beginning of a season before Cashman became GM.

    7. Raf
      April 26th, 2010 | 1:47 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      But, do you really suggest that the Yankees should be measured with the same view that the Royals, Twins, and Rays should be viewed?

      ?

      Why wouldn’t they? They play in the same league, don’t they?

    8. YankCrank
      April 26th, 2010 | 1:47 pm

      Yawn, another biased attack on a man you’ve already admitted can realistically do nothing to win your approval.

      If you expect every player/pitcher to be perfect and be impervious to slumps, you’re unrealistic and really reaching for a way to criticize somebody. And once again, if you’re looking for the Yankees to win on a budget you’re rooting for the wrong team. These Royals, Twins and Rays can surely use a fan like you on their side.

    9. Mailman
      April 26th, 2010 | 1:52 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Mailman wrote:And this compares to a league average for rough starts of …..?Why would you want to use the league average? I can understand comparing it to all teams with the same revenue and resources of the Yankees. But, do you really suggest that the Yankees should be measured with the same view that the Royals, Twins, and Rays should be viewed?

      Why would you assume I wouldn’t expect the Yankees to be better than league average? My point is that without some context (average for the league, average for “elite” teams, average for teams that won the world series, average for 90+ win teams, average for the Yankees pre Cashman, etc) the fact that the Yankees average 18% since Cashman became GM is meaningless.

      18% could be the best number in the league. It could be the worst. Without providing context, readers have no clue if 18% means Cashman has done a great job evaluating pitching and using resources, or if he’s been terrible.

    10. MJ Recanati
      April 26th, 2010 | 2:45 pm

      @ Steve Lombardi:
      Here’s what I don’t get…if you’re trying to back your way into saying that Cashman stinks at his job because he can’t evaluate pitching and you bring up this table to prove your point, then:

      1) David Cone. You like Cone, right? He was brought to the team by Gene Michael, another guy you like. Hence, you can toss him right out because Cashman didn’t make this mistake. However, if you want to argue that because Cashman was the GM in 2000 and he should’ve known better than to trust an aging pitcher like Cone, then you’d also have to suddenly concede that Cashman won the 2000 World Series because if he was calling the shots on this mistake then he was calling the shots on the 2000 season.

      2) Jaret Wright. You’ve said yourself that you always believed Wright was signed in spite of Cashman’s wishes, before he consolidated power in October-November of ’05.

      3) Chien-Ming Wang. Another guy you like. His rotten 2009 is clearly on Cashman’s watch. Yet he was acquired pre-2005 power consolidation and since you’ve more or less stated that Cashman can’t evaluate pitchers to save his life then we can’t possibly give Cashman any credit for signing Wang.

      5) Andy Pettitte. Another of your favorites. It’s 1998 so the David Cone argument applies here. If Cashman was at fault for trusting Andy Pettitte in 1998 then he gets credit for the moves that helped shape the 1998 championship team. If we’re going to ignore the presence of Pettitte on this list then I suppose the purpose of this excercise is meaningless anyway since you’re opting to dig on Cashman only for moves you don’t like…

      6) Mike Mussina. On a net basis, Moose represents only the best free agent pitching acquisition in Yanks history (pending how Sabathia’s tenure plays out). Uh oh…I believe that was a Cashman move…unless it wasn’t because he didn’t have total control of the team until late 2005.

      10). El Duque. See David Cone argument.

      As you can see, my arguments in support of Cashman are as flimsy as your implied arguments against him. That was the entire point…to show how you back into theories and move targets as convenient in order to prove how bad Cashman is at his job. Honestly, Steve, would you really look at this list of data and rationally argue that this proves your point?

    11. April 26th, 2010 | 3:29 pm

      Some of you are WAY TOO defensive and worried about Cashman.

      I chose 1998 as a cut-off. That’s was Cashman’s first year.

      I could have used 1973. That was Steinbrenners first year.

      But, that would included 1995 – which I thought was unfair because the start of that season was messed up due to the work-stoppage.

      So, I wanted something post-1995 as a cut-off/starting point.

      I could have used 1996, I suppose. But, since 1998 seemed more “clean” – meaning that it was a block of time under the same GM, I used that.

      Where in the post did I say this was Cashman’s fault? Where in the post did I say this was worse (or even better) than any other GM? NO WHERE – on both accounts.

      All I wrote was that, since 1998, which was Cashman’s first year as GM, it seems like 18% of the time, or, on average, one a year, some Yankees SP gets off to a bad start. That’s it. PERIOD.

      You guys are adding all this other stuff to it – not me.

    12. MJ Recanati
      April 26th, 2010 | 3:58 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Some of you are WAY TOO defensive and worried about Cashman.
      All I wrote was that, since 1998, which was Cashman’s first year as GM, it seems like 18% of the time, or, on average, one a year, some Yankees SP gets off to a bad start. That’s it. PERIOD.
      You guys are adding all this other stuff to it – not me.

      Forgive us for being conditioned to run to our bomb shelters every time you type the name “Cashman” on the site. More often than not, you’re taking shots at him using some really iffy logic.

      If you weren’t taking a shot at him here then, hey, we’ll all say our mea culpas and move on.

    13. Jeteupthemiddle Allie
      April 26th, 2010 | 4:27 pm

      By my count, the Yankees pitching is off to a pretty good start. The Yankees have the 10th best ERA in the majors, and the 5th best in the AL (Yes, I know the original post is specifically about starting pitching, but quite frankly, I don’t know how to do such a refined search.).

      Furthermore, in 18 games, the Yankees record is 12-6. The starters recorded at least a quality start in 10 of those 18 games, and IIRC only one was of the 6 IP 3 ER variety…the rest either went more innings or allowed fewer runs.

      And then, of the 8 remaining games, 4 were either 1 IP OR 1 ER away from being quality starts.

      Two separate pitchers took no hitters into the 8th innings.

      Quite frankly, I think the Yankees pitching…overall…is off to a wonderful start.

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