• King Felix Wins Cy Young, Sabathia Finishes Third

    Posted by on November 18th, 2010 · Comments (8)

    Via the BBWA

    Because of the heightened interest in this award, the list of voters is below, grouped by which pitcher they listed first on their ballot:

    Hernandez: Ken Rosenthal, Fox; Amalie Benjamin, Boston Globe; Michael Silverman, Boston Herald; Erik Boland, Newsday; Joe Smith, St. Petersburg Times; Mark Gonzales, Chicago Tribune; Lynn Henning, Detroit News; John Lowe, Detroit Free Press; Sam Mellinger, Kansas City Star; Joe Posnanski, SI.com; Joe Christensen, Minneapolis Star Tribune; John Shipley, St. Paul Pioneer Press; Hirokazu Higuchi, Chunichi Shimbun (LA); Tim Brown, Yahoo Sports; Jorge Ortiz, USA Today; Ray Ratto, At Large (SF/Oakland); Kirby Arnold, Everett Herald; Larry Stone, Seattle Times; Richard Durrett, At Large (Dallas-Fort Worth); Anthony Andro, Fort Worth Star Telegram; Morgan Campbell, Toronto Star.

    Price: Mel Antonen, USA Today; Tony Fabrizio, Tampa Tribune; Phil Rogers, Chicago Tribune; Chris Assenheimer. Elyria (OH) Chronicle.

    Sabathia: George King, New York Post; Bob Elliott, Toronto Sun; Sheldon Ocker, Akron Beacon Journal.

    It will be interesting to see where Sabathia ends up in the A.L. MVP voting this year…

    Comments on King Felix Wins Cy Young, Sabathia Finishes Third

    1. Evan3457
      November 18th, 2010 | 6:54 pm

      As expected.

      The scuttlebutt was for Felix and against CC for a long, long time.

      Felix outpitched him, and I well understand run support, but 8 real life win are a helluva lot of wins, especially considering the rest of the starting staff crumbled one way or another the last two months.

    2. agsf
      November 18th, 2010 | 7:22 pm

      The scuttlebutt? If that means 99 percent of all statistical categories favored Felix, I agree. How embarrassing for anyone that voted for CC.

      “especially considering the rest of the starting staff crumbled one way or another the last two months.”

      Makes absolutely no difference what the rest of the staff did. This isn’t an mvp award. Me thinks you don’t quite understand how this works.

    3. Evan3457
      November 19th, 2010 | 12:07 am

      agsf wrote:

      The scuttlebutt? If that means 99 percent of all statistical categories favored Felix, I agree. How embarrassing for anyone that voted for CC.
      “especially considering the rest of the starting staff crumbled one way or another the last two months.”
      Makes absolutely no difference what the rest of the staff did. This isn’t an mvp award. Me thinks you don’t quite understand how this works.

      Embarassing? How arrogant.

      The award goes to the “best” pitcher. There is NO agreed upon definition of what “best” means. Not then, not now.

      When it was created, it was named after Cy Young, not Lefty Grove, not Walter Johnson, not Pete Alexander. At the time it was created, Cy Young lead in wins, and was commonly regarded as the greatest pitcher ever for that reason. Others argued for Johnson, or Mathewson, or Alexander, but no one argued even for Grove.

      Felix led the league in IP and ERA. That’s damn impressive. He was 2nd in K’s by 1 K. That’s an outstanding season, but it’s not everything. Still, there’s a lot of merit in the argument that he was the best pitcher in the league, and deserved the Award. He did shut down the Yankees 3 times, and the Red Sox once. It’s not his fault he didn’t get run support, and that he pitched for a bad team with a weak bullpen.

      However, there remains merit in real games and real wins. We’re not talking a difference of 3 wins, or even 5. It’s 8 real wins, and don’t tell that doesn’t matter. It damn well does matter.

      Let’s try a little reductio ad absurdum…if Felix is 11-14, rather than 13-12, is he still the Cy Young winner? How’s about 8-17?

      Let’s say the Mariners scored 0 runs for him the whole season, and he goes 0-25. Is he still the Cy Young winner then? After all, he pitched the best, even if 0 real wins resulted…
      ============================================
      I think maybe we should go back and award the 1960 World Series to the Yankees. After all they outhit the Pirates .911 OPS to .656. They outscored the Pirates 55-27. Sabremetrically speaking, they kicked the Pirates’ collective asses, and I hereby award them the 1960 Series, by a retroactive game score of 4 games to 1. (twice the runs should produce an .800 WPCT approximately, or so saith Pyhtagorean WPCT).
      ===========================================
      I’m looking at the RAR numbers at Baseball Reference, Hernandez 56, Sabathia 53. That’s 3 runs difference. I’m looking at the WAR numbers; 6.0 for Felix, 5.4 for CC. That’s a half-game difference.

      You wanna go by Fangraphs’ WAR? Then the Cy Young winner should have been Verlander. He’s nowhere on the voting list, 11th place, one miserable stinking point. FIP? Then it should’ve been Liriano. He even won 1 more game, and did it for a division winner. He also got one miserable stinking point. xFIP? Still Liriano.
      ==========================================
      Here’s what I don’t like. I don’t especially believe that CC should’ve won the Award over Felix (or Price or Lester, for that matter).

      But to sit there and say that real factors mean nothing, that no reasonable case can be made for Sabathia, or for Price, or for Lester, that’s pretty damn arrogant.

      8 more wins means nothing? Pitching on a bad knee since early in the season means nothing? Holding the starting staff of a contender together when all around him were falling apart means nothing? Pitching in a much better hitter’s park in a much tougher division with a weaker defense behind him means nothing?

      Really???

      Bullspit.
      ==================================
      I’m a little sad CC didn’t get more consideration. If he didn’t deserve an outright win, and he probably didn’t, he definitely deserved a closer vote. Just because you say it isn’t an MVP award doesn’t mean that’s the final word on the matter. If it’s simply a matter of runs saved above replacement or average, then how can any reliever EVER be worthy of the Cy Young?

      The right guy probably won the Award. But it’s not a “no brainer”. The true value of the two in 2010 is a lot closer than the voting suggests. That’s not the first time that’s happened either. But to the extent people are denigrating CC’s season to make the case for an extreme outlier in W-L to win the award, those people are chock full of it.

      And that’s the way THIS works.

    4. Jim TreshFan
      November 19th, 2010 | 10:08 am

      Felix Hernandez’s selection by the BBWAA for the 2010 A.L. Cy Young Award does two things really.

      1.) It justifies giving the same award to Zack Greinke in 2009, when Hernandez led the league in wins and winning percentage—despite pitching for the team that scored the fewest runs—while also finishing 2nd in ERA and coming within 1 1/3 IP of leading the league in that category. AND…

      2.) It compensates Hernandez for getting stiffed last year.

      So this would be a win-win for the BBWAA, providing that wins counted for anything.

    5. BOHAN
      November 19th, 2010 | 10:51 am

      Greinke 100% deserved that award last year… he was the best pitcher in the league… Hernandez was second best… this year Hernandez was the best pitcher and he deserved this award… its really as simple as that

    6. Jim TreshFan
      November 19th, 2010 | 11:04 am

      @ BOHAN:
      And Josh Johnson 100% deserved the N.L. Cy Young as well.

    7. BOHAN
      November 19th, 2010 | 11:39 am

      @ Jim TreshFan:
      Unti he got hurt… yea he would have been my pick for the NL CY Young had he not gotten hurt

    8. 77yankees
      November 21st, 2010 | 12:36 pm

      You mean George King didn’t vote for Carl Pavano???? Shocking!!!

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