• How To Get The Jeter Deal Done

    Posted by on November 28th, 2010 · Comments (55)

    We know the Yankees want to sign Derek Jeter for three years at $45 million. And, reportedly, Jeter’s camp wants either four years at $92 million or five years at $115 million. Seems like a wide gap, no? But, actually, there’s a simple way to get this one.

    First, forget five years. That’s not happening.

    And, while the Yankees don’t want to go to four years, they can offer him four – with a team option/buy-out on the fourth year – by front loading the contract with “milestone marketing agreement bonuses” (like they have with A-Rod!) on the front end. Here’s how I would do it:

    Pay Derek Jeter $19 million in base salary for 2011 (splitting the difference between $15 and $23 million) and give him a $6 million “marketing agreement” bonus this season when he gets his 3,000th career hit. This is the same amount of bonus that A-Rod will get for hitting his 660th career homerun.) This gives Jeter $25 million in 2011 – a number that he cannot be unhappy about, right?

    Pay Jeter $20 million in base salary for 2012. Period.

    Pay Jeter $20 million in base salary for 2013 and give him a $6 million “marketing agreement” bonus this season when he gets his 3,320th career hit – setting the record for hits by a right-handed batter, lifetime, in the American League. (Note, if Jeter is productive for three seasons, he should get this mark. But, if not, the Yankees could save $6 million here.)

    Pay Jeter $17 milion for 2014. But, have a team option on this season. If they Yankees take the option, they pay Jeter the $17 million. But, if they don’t exercise the option, they have to “buy out” Jeter for $6 million.

    With this deal, the Jeter has the potential to earn $88 million over four years – which is an average of $22 million per season. There’s no way he cannot be happy with that. And, if Jeter blows up, at the worst, the Yankees would owe him $71 million and only have him for three seasons. Granted, that’s $26 million more than they are offering him now. But, the Yankees can figure out where to get that extra $8.67 million a year (for three years)…of this I have no doubt.

    And, if the Yankees offer this to Jeter and be balks, then you let him go and hold your head high – because you more than made him a fair offer and no one could beef about it.

    Comments on How To Get The Jeter Deal Done

    1. November 28th, 2010 | 9:39 am

      You know how to get the deal done? Jeter needs a reality check about how much he’s worth. End of story.

      And I have to laugh at the idea of rewarding Mr. Team First, Mr. Doesn’t Care About Individual Numbers for reaching individual stats. The irony here is simply delicious.

    2. Scout
      November 28th, 2010 | 10:15 am

      I can think of no reason to pay Jeter a minimum of $71 million for three years when the Yankee offer is already far more than his on-field or market-value. If he leaves despite the current $45/three years, the organization can already hold its head high. Derek can enjoy playing for less elsewhere, his pride in full control.

    3. GDH
      November 28th, 2010 | 11:22 am

      I’m with Scout. The Yankees need to hold the line on this one. They made a reasonable offer and they should stick to it. If he wants four years, make it 4/52. If he wants more money, make it 2/38 and let’s see how he looks at age 38. The Yanks should only increase this offer if they are sure he has a better one, which he does not.

    4. November 28th, 2010 | 12:03 pm

      What happens if what happens to virtually every player who gets to this age, happens to Jeter? What happens if his skills continue to erode and at the end of 2012 we are looking at a player who can no longer play shortstop on a team with serious postseason possibilities? What happens if 2011 turns out to be worse than 2010? The Yankees would be in the hole for at least 46 million after 2011 with a player they could not keep running out there. We can’t stick this guy at first, he doesn’t play the outfield, and 20 million plus for a DH with Jeter type number would be ridiculous. 45 million is the only offer that makes any real sense unless the Yanks can get Jeter to agree to an opt out after two years. There is no market for Jeter anywhere north of the 20-25 range, let’s keep that in mind.

    5. November 28th, 2010 | 1:00 pm

      A few additional points:

      3000 hits does not equal 660 homers. 27 players have hit 3000 or more hits. Four have hit 660 or more homers.

      As for the additional 6 million for the “3,320th career hit – setting the record for hits by a right-handed batter, lifetime, in the American League,” I wondered why there was no name listed. I looked it up in Baseball Reference, and discovered this record-holder is Paul Molitor. Jeter passing Paul Molitor on a record nobody is aware of is worth an extra $6 million? Come on now.

    6. Corey Italiano
      November 28th, 2010 | 1:05 pm

      I’m sorry, but 3000 hits is not the same as homer 660.

    7. Corey Italiano
      November 28th, 2010 | 1:05 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      3000 hits does not equal 660 homers. 27 players have hit 3000 or more hits. Four have hit 660 or more homers.

      Exactly, shoulda read the comments before i commented.

    8. K-V-C
      November 28th, 2010 | 1:31 pm

      Why would the Yanks raise their offer when Jeter has NO OTHER offer?

      Pure numbers say $7 to $10 million a year for a player with his numbers. The Yankees have more than doubled the low number and you want to triple it? Why is this a fair offer to he Yankees?!?!

    9. November 28th, 2010 | 1:39 pm

      @ Corey Italiano: How about this idea? Jeter gets his $6 own million milestone when he reaches 660 homers!

    10. Corey Italiano
      November 28th, 2010 | 1:47 pm

      @ lisaswan:
      Make it 12 since he’s the face of the franchise ;)

    11. MJ Recanati
      November 28th, 2010 | 1:54 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Granted, that’s $26 million more than they are offering him now.

      If you yourself implicitly acknowledge that bidding against yourself by $26M is a bad idea then why would you endorse this idea?

      Derek Jeter isn’t worth more than the $45M being offered to him. He’s probably not even worth that but there’s certainly nothing wrong with tossing him this bone. Anything beyond that — especially now that the Yankees have set their parameters — would be a bad move.

    12. November 28th, 2010 | 4:16 pm

      When A-Rod has an OBA of .335 next season and hits less than 30 HRs, I hope ya’ll turn on his as fast as ya’ll have turned on Jeter now.

    13. Evan3457
      November 28th, 2010 | 4:22 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      When A-Rod has an OBA of .335 next season and hits less than 30 HRs, I hope ya’ll turn on his as fast as ya’ll have turned on Jeter now.

      A-Rod essentially did this in 2010, and was still nearly two games more valuable than Jeter last season.

      In truth, both of them had sub-par years, but A-Rod’s starting from a higher peak offensively, and is no worse at his position than Jeter is at his.

    14. Evan3457
      November 28th, 2010 | 4:25 pm

      Again: let’s review

      Jeter in 2008: OK, nothing special(BR WAR: +2.7)
      Jeter in 2009: brilliant, worthy of some MVP votes (WAR: 6.5)
      Jeter in 2010: mediocre, at best (WAR: 1.3)

      You CANNOT pay a 36 year old shortstop with this record 20 million a year, or anything like that. Even $18 million is a long stretch, and $15 million is fair. More than fair.

    15. November 28th, 2010 | 4:55 pm

      @ Steve Lombardi: “When A-Rod has an OBA of .335 next season and hits less than 30 HRs, I hope ya’ll turn on his as fast as ya’ll have turned on Jeter now.”

      The problem isn’t us — the problem is Jeter. He really believes his own hype. He really thinks intangibles are worth a $150 million contract. He doesn’t seem to understand that when your reputation is built on team and pinstripe pride and winning, you can’t ask for three times your market value during a recession and not expect to look like a greedy egomaniac.

      I keep on asking myself, what would Jeter have demanded if he had had a great season? $35 million a year?

    16. JeremyM
      November 28th, 2010 | 7:06 pm

      I’m an A-Rod fan, but that doesn’t mean the Yankees were smart to give him the deal that they did. It was stupid. But that doesn’t mean you make the same mistake- maybe even a worse mistake- by giving Jeter the world. They’ve already offered him well above market value. I know Jeter’s stated goal is to own a team- so that’s probably why this extra cash is so important to him- but if he runs his team the way he expects the Yankees to run theirs, he’s not going to do very well as an owner.

    17. MJ Recanati
      November 28th, 2010 | 7:35 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      When A-Rod has an OBA of .335 next season and hits less than 30 HRs, I hope ya’ll turn on his as fast as ya’ll have turned on Jeter now.

      No one has turned on Jeter, people are just pointing out that he’s not worth $20M per season. You’re losing perspective here, Steve. The issue isn’t A-Rod, it’s Jeter. Last I checked, it was Jeter that was the free agent.

    18. November 28th, 2010 | 8:34 pm

      A-Rod is grossly over paid. Yet, when anyone brings that up, his fans say “It doesn’t matter. He’s on the team. I love him. The Yankees can afford it, etc.” So, why not extend the same love to Jeter?

    19. MJ Recanati
      November 28th, 2010 | 8:51 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      A-Rod is grossly over paid. Yet, when anyone brings that up, his fans say “It doesn’t matter. He’s on the team. I love him. The Yankees can afford it, etc.” So, why not extend the same love to Jeter?

      Once again, this has nothing to do with A-Rod. A-Rod already signed his contract and we’ve already covered this territory. No one thinks A-Rod’s contract was a good idea. But since that mistake was already made, why should it be made again for Jeter?

      A-Rod signed his deal as a 32 year old coming off a career year. Jeter wants to sign his deal as a 36 year old coming off his worst year. How, exactly can you try to equate the two situations?

      As far as “extending love” for Jeter, since when did the Yankees become a 501(c)(3) charitable organization? People may love Jeter, but he shouldn’t be given a $20M salary based on love, only on expected future performance.

    20. Scout
      November 28th, 2010 | 8:56 pm

      For good measure, let’s also consider in the equation the additonal luxury tax that the Yankees would incur if they up their initial offer. This would only further compromise their payroll flexibility down the road.

    21. mwach1
      November 28th, 2010 | 8:59 pm

      @ Steve Lombardi:

      Wow. That’s a serious logic fail.

    22. Evan3457
      November 28th, 2010 | 9:54 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      A-Rod is grossly over paid. Yet, when anyone brings that up, his fans say “It doesn’t matter. He’s on the team. I love him. The Yankees can afford it, etc.” So, why not extend the same love to Jeter?

      A-Rod may well be grossly overpaid. That’s not the point.

      Nobody’s saying it doesn’t matter. It does.

      I don’t really love A-Rod. I sort of get serious schadenfreude whenever an obviously great player like A-Rod does well in spite of all the people who hate him for whatever reason wishing him ill.

      The Yanks CAN afford to pay A-Rod’s contract, and they could afford to pay Jeter what he wants, too, I suppose. That’s not the point, either.

      What is the point?

      The point is that the A-Rod contract is a sunk cost. It’s a decision already made; it can’t be recalled. It’s water over the bridge, or damn, or whatever. It’s spilled milk. We can’t go back in time. We don’t get a do-over. The albatross is around the neck of this team until 2017. There’s nothing that can be done about it; this is an ex-parrot!

      What CAN be done is to not repeat the same bad mistake.

      As you love Jeter, and hate A-Rod, this strikes you as patently unfair. Why should A-Rod get the Do-Re-Mi while Jeter sucks hind teat?

      The reason why is plain, even though you’ll never accept it: as stupid as the A-Rod contract was, it would be even STUPIDER to do it again, and the two together might well cripple the franchise for the next 4-5 years.

      In the immortal words of Tina Turner: what’s love go to do with it?

      Nuthin’.

    23. November 28th, 2010 | 10:34 pm

      Sure. A-Rod’s deal was signed under different circumstances. And, sure, it can’t be undone. But, yet, he’s not subject to the venom that many Yankees fans are throwing at Jeter now. No one wants to ride him out of town the way Yankees fans are telling Jeter to take a hike. Seems uneven, IMHO.

      In any event, look at it this way. Bank “A” got you to open a credit card with a rate that looked like a good deal at the time. And, you agreed to a long term deal with them. But, now, the deal sucks and you’re being taken to the cleaners every time you use the card. Does it make it OK since you opened the account at the time it seemed like a good deal? And, should you have no emotion over it, now, because it can’t be undone?

      Next, Bank “B,” which has been your family bank forever – your parents opened an account there when they first got married and you had your first account with them since you were six – offers you a credit card at really sucky rates. And, the only reason why you would consider it is because they’ve been your bank forever and they’ve done well by you in the past. Sure, it’s OK to want to pass on the offer. But, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s been a good bank for you in the past and you should honor that by treating them with respect – and not telling them to go screw – and perhaps working with them to come to some terms that work out for everyone.

      A-Rod is Bank “A” here and Jeter is Bank “B” – if you haven’t figured that out yet.

    24. Evan3457
      November 28th, 2010 | 11:12 pm

      They sure wanted to ride A-Rod out of town after 2008, and much moreso after his steroid use was revealed.

      When that happened, quite illegally and grossly unfairly, he was subject to a torrent of abuse the likes of which Jeter has never seen, and will never, ever approach, no matter how bad you think people are abusing Jeter now.

      And A-Rod continued to be massively abused…until he started to get big hits in the 2009 post-season; until he basically carried the Yanks on his back with big hit after big hit right until Matsui took over in game 7 of the World Series. He’s still wearing some of the goodwill he built up in that playoff run.

      Certainly, Jeter’s done nothing to merit the abuse level A-Rod earned when his PED use was exposed. But his current self-valuation is not rational given the market. And it doesn’t makes sense to validate it by moving substantially in his direction. A token gesture? Sure. Make it 3 years, $50 million around Dec. 22nd. Call the extra $5 million a Christmas present in the season of giving.

      This isn’t abuse. It may FEEL like abuse, because you may feel Jeter’s due undying love and tribute. And he’ll get all that–when he retires. But the Yanks have seasons to play, pennants to chase, and while Jeter may be able to recapture some of his past glory, the odds of him having another 2009 are very slim indeed.

      No intelligent management would go anywhere near what Jeter and Close are asking for. No intelligent management would bid against itself to pay an additional $25 million for a player it considers that it is already slightly overpaying in its original offer.

      I’m not “riding him out of town”. I truly hope he re-signs. He’s a much better option than Nunez, at least for the foreseeable future, and I don’t want to do something ridiculous, like trade Montero for Stephen Drew.

      But not for 4-5 years, and not for MVP-type dollars. He’s simply, in my judgment, not worth it at this point. I hope he comes to understand that, but I’m fairly certain, given his self-evaluation and his pride, that he will not.

      It seems to me that this impasse will not be settled until February at the absolute earliest, if at all. As with Damon, the two sides have radically different opinions about the player’s worth. Until one side changes their opinion, nothing can be done.

    25. Evan3457
      November 28th, 2010 | 11:13 pm

      Oh, and if my current bank offered me a crappy credit card, I’d simply turn it down, and stick with the cards I’m already using.

    26. JeremyM
      November 28th, 2010 | 11:15 pm

      Steve, you’re wrong- when A-Rod opted out, EVERYONE wanted to send him out of town-myself included. And while I eventually came around and realized that the Yankees had to bring him back, I still thought the deal was pure insanity. And I think the Yankees basically need to bring Jeter back, but anything over what they’ve offered, or let’s say anything over 3/50, will be insanity.

    27. November 29th, 2010 | 5:59 am

      You want to talk about “venom” being directed at Jeter? A crazy fan jumped on the field during the playoffs and tried to kill A-Rod this year. And I saw a lot of Yankee “fans” writing that they wished the guy had succeeded, and making jokes about the whole thing. Sickening.

      Fans like me were angry when A-Rod put his interests above the team and opted out. So why can’t they also be angry that Jeter is putting his interests above the team?

    28. November 29th, 2010 | 8:23 am

      lisaswan wrote:

      You want to talk about “venom” being directed at Jeter? A crazy fan jumped on the field during the playoffs and tried to kill A-Rod this year.

      Please. That attack attempt had nothing to do with A-Rod’s salary, production, or the Yankees ROI and was all about some nut having the hots for a Hollywood actress that A-Rod was bedding.

    29. MJ Recanati
      November 29th, 2010 | 9:08 am

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      But, yet, he’s not subject to the venom that many Yankees fans are throwing at Jeter now.

      That’s perhaps the most intellectually dishonest thing ever written on any Yankee site, ever.

    30. November 29th, 2010 | 9:16 am

      @ Steve Lombardi:

      Um, no.

      “The Bronx loon who stormed the Yankee Stadium field in a bizarre bid to impress Cameron Diaz had a vendetta against A-Rod even before the slugger hooked up with the sexy starlet.

      Grim LeRogue, 33, scrawled anti-Alex Rodriguez screeds on the walls of his old apartment besides giant pictures of the Yankees star.

      “I want to beat his a–,” one message read, LeRogue’s ex-super told the Daily News.

      Read more: http://tinyurl.com/376a2g7
      * * *

      Again, the fact that some Yankee fans wanted this creep to succeed at killing Alex Rodriguez shows more “venom” than anything directed Derek Jeter’s way right now.

    31. MJ Recanati
      November 29th, 2010 | 9:19 am

      @ Steve Lombardi:
      Once again, for about the millionth time, no one is trying to kick Jeter out of town. The Yankees offered to extend him at the highest salary in major league baseball for a player at that position. Fans who don’t support writing a blank check to Jeter are simply pointing out that he’s worth no more than the $15M/season the Yankees are offering him. If Jeter is able to do better in the open market, he should do what is best for him and take the best possible offer. There is no venom directed at him and there is no desire to kick him out at all costs.

      The Yankees made a very fair offer — the highest offer to date on the open market — to a historically great and important player that happens to be on the wrong side of 30 and is coming off a subpar season. Those are all facts that really can’t be argued. If Jeter feels that he is entitled to more, he should actively seek more from other teams. The Yankees shouldn’t bid against themselves just because Jeter is well-liked among the fans.

      Steve, you’re getting far too emotional about this. For a guy that bashes Cashman all the time for fiscal irresponsibility, it’s peculiar that you’d be endorsing any plan that would be as fiscally irresponsible as offering Jeter $20M/season, a potential for $88M over four years and $26M more than anyone else would give him.

      I get that you love Jeter, lots of people do. He’s been a wonderful player for the Yankees. But that’s not a good enough reason to overpay him.

    32. Rob Mains
      November 29th, 2010 | 11:18 am

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      That’s perhaps the most intellectually dishonest thing ever written on any Yankee site, ever.

      Umm, I’d take anything written in defense of Jeter’s GGs as Exhibit A.

      I can’t remember where I saw this–might’ve been here, I’ve lost track; it seems the Thanksgiving weekend news consiseted of Jeter, Jeter, Jeter, some teen from Somalia tried to blow up the Christmas tree lighting in Portland, Jeter, Jeter, massive leak of classified diplomatic documents, Jeter, Jeter, and Jeter–but the $19 million base makes sense for two reasons. First, it’s halfway between the $15M the Yanks are offering and $23M Jeter’s apparently asking. Second, it gives Jeter a face-saving raise over the 10-year $189M contract that’s expired. I’m not talking about what *should* be, just what probably *will* be, and I think Steve’s going to be pretty close.

      BTW, Steve, I work for a Southern company–it’s y’all, not ya’ll. You lower-case yankees all get that wrong.

    33. BOHAN
      November 29th, 2010 | 11:38 am

      I agree with Steve on this. I think Jeter has earned the right to be greedy at this point in his career. He’s done nothing but god for this organization. He’s kept his name clean and been about the team his whole career and when he signs he’ll be all about the team again.
      Paying him 20 mil or so a year isn’t going to hamper them financially in anyway and like some one said before. They’re frickin Yankees they have 4 million people come to ball park every year they’re never going to be in debt any time soon.

    34. BOHAN
      November 29th, 2010 | 11:38 am

      good* not god

    35. November 29th, 2010 | 11:42 am

      Rob Mains wrote:

      BTW, Steve, I work for a Southern company–it’s y’all, not ya’ll. You lower-case yankees all get that wrong.

      LOL! Thanks.

    36. Raf
      November 29th, 2010 | 11:48 am

      BOHAN wrote:

      I think Jeter has earned the right to be greedy at this point in his career.

      Every player has earned the right to be “greedy,” but at the end of the day, it’s the team signing the player to a contract. If they want to pay, they will, if they don’t, they won’t.

      This will probably wind up like the Manny-Dodgers deal a while back where Manny resigned with them late in the offseason.

    37. November 29th, 2010 | 11:53 am

      Bottom line, this whole thing seems like it’s Cashman taking a hard line with Jeter to try and make up for past mistakes. I mean, honestly, this is the guy who pissed away $86 MILLION on Igawa and Pavano and NOW he wants to start chest thumping as someone who refuses to over pay for talent?

      Don’t get me wrong, that’s fine. He’s screwed up enough over the last five years or so that it’s about time that he started doing things right.

      It’s just a shame that he’s picking Jeter to start his effort on this. Well, maybe he started with Damon…but, then how to you explain the money he threw away on Nick Johnson and Javy Vazquez?

      In Yankeeland, there’s #8, #7, #5, #4 and #3 and #2 belongs right along with them – more than #44, #9, #51, #23, and, heaven help me, #15. You just don’t treat your legends this way – with remarks with “Here’s our only and best offer, if you don’t like it, go shop yourself elsewhere.”

      There’s a lot wrong with the Yankees these days. But, Derek Jeter ain’t it. Yes, he’s older. Yes, he’s not a great fielding SS. (But, he’s not Jose Offerman either!) And, yes, he had a down year last season. And, sure, it’s perfect sense to offer him 3 years. And, yes, I can see why you would want to offer such a player less money. But, sometimes, yeah, it goes beyond the stat sheet. How many players have had Yankees careers like Jeter? You just don’t piss on that, IMHO.

      Your mileage may vary.

    38. BOHAN
      November 29th, 2010 | 12:04 pm

      @ Steve Lombardi:
      Exactly!

    39. Raf
      November 29th, 2010 | 12:11 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      It’s just a shame that he’s picking Jeter to start his effort on this. Well, maybe he started with Damon…

      It would appear that he started with Rodriguez, but was over-ruled by Hank. Maybe it started with Bernie?

      In Yankeeland, there’s #8, #7, #5, #4 and #3 and #2 belongs right along with them

      And there’s nothing stopping #2 from joining them. Yogi did time with the Mets, managing and coaching them. He even had a handful of at-bats with them. It has been well documented that Babe Ruth finished his career as a Brave.

      It would be great if the two sides come to agreement, and it may happen. If it doesn’t, oh well, thanks for memories.

    40. Jim TreshFan
      November 29th, 2010 | 12:15 pm
    41. November 29th, 2010 | 12:19 pm

      Steve says: “How many players have had Yankees careers like Jeter? You just don’t piss on that, IMHO.”

      And how many Yankees have been treated as well by the franchise? Ruth and Mantle had to take paycuts. DiMaggio got in a contract dispute with the team. Captain Graig Nettles was traded. Captain Willie Randolph ended his career elsewhere. Reggie Jackson didn’t even get a contract offer. Dave Winfield had Howie Spira after him.

      What is this insult of all insults with Jeter? That he’s only going to be paid $15M a year for a .710 OPS? Please.

      The captain can’t have it both ways. Jeter never took a hometown discount, getting every dollar his market value entitled him to. That’s fine — it’s a business after all. But he can’t go back and say that the Yanks need to pay him again for the rings and the class.

      What I’m sure irks the Steinbrenner kids on this, the way it did with Joe Torre, is that there was never an acknowledgement from Torre — or from Jeter — that it’s a two-way street, and that the intangibles provided go both ways. Jeter is a great player. A first ballot Hall of Famer. But he would be Craig Biggio or Roberto Alomar or Alan Trammell on any other team. He sure wouldn’t be getting the chance to date Scarlett Johannsen or Minka Kelly or Mariah Carey or Jessica Biel as a Houston Astro? Doubtful. Nor would he have the most endorsements of anybody in baseball.

    42. GDH
      November 29th, 2010 | 12:26 pm

      @ lisaswan:
      lisaswan beat me to the post. Not only does it happen, it happens all the time, and to franchise players: Team looks rationally at the ability of franchise player and sees inevitable decline, makes offer. That’s business. Franchise player feels 1) The team still owes them and 2) They can still play to their former level. False and false. I’d love to have Jeter back, But I worry about the Yankees roster flexibility and more irresponsible precedents being set, not Jeter’s trust fund. Jeter will make money off his Yankee performance for many years to come. Take the offer and get in shape, captain.

    43. Raf
      November 29th, 2010 | 12:51 pm

      Is roster flexibility really that big a problem? If a team has no use for a player, they will trade him (salary in tow) or release him. There have been many a player in this position that have been moved.

    44. Corey Italiano
      November 29th, 2010 | 12:55 pm

      I agree with Steve on this. I think Jeter has earned the right to be greedy at this point in his career.
      ============
      I think everyone has a right to be greedy when it comes to their salary. But, just like in the real world, you can’t always get what you want.

      As long as the money offered is the best offer out there, how can anyone not named Jeter complain?

    45. Corey Italiano
      November 29th, 2010 | 12:57 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Bottom line, this whole thing seems like it’s Cashman taking a hard line with Jeter to try and make up for past mistakes. I mean, honestly, this is the guy who pissed away $86 MILLION on Igawa and Pavano and NOW he wants to start chest thumping as someone who refuses to over pay for talent?

      Maybe he’s learned from his mistakes? Or would you prefer a GM who doesn’t?

    46. Corey Italiano
      November 29th, 2010 | 12:58 pm

      Raf wrote:

      It would appear that he started with Rodriguez, but was over-ruled by Hank. Maybe it started with Bernie?

      Could be the answer right there.

    47. GDH
      November 29th, 2010 | 2:19 pm

      @ Corey Italiano:
      It definitely started with Bernie. You had all sorts of people wanting Bernie back (probably including Torre) when in reality he was in complete decline. Complete conjecture here but I don’t think Cashman made that contract with A-Rod happen, but agree that it was an over-rule by Hank, punished by his diminished role in the operation.

    48. November 29th, 2010 | 2:51 pm

      Obviously, the Yanks didn’t know that Pavano would be a disaster. Heck, he took less money to be a Yankee than the Red Sox offered him. Same with a lot of the other bad deals.

      And the flip side to them paying a lot of money for guys who failed is this: If Jeter were with a small-payroll team, they wouldn’t be making mistakes like that because they wouldn’t be spending at all. It would be what A-Rod complained about with his time with the Rangers — it was him and 24 kids.

    49. #15
      November 29th, 2010 | 3:04 pm

      Don’t forget that contract talks were sour, several times, with Thurman as well. I hope this gets done and I think it will. I do think some milestone bonuses can be added. Passing Molitor is/isn’t a big deal? All a matter of packaging and marketing to make it so, and the Yankees have that big megaphone and a huge built in machine in the NY press.

    50. Evan3457
      November 29th, 2010 | 6:30 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      Obviously, the Yanks didn’t know that Pavano would be a disaster. Heck, he took less money to be a Yankee than the Red Sox offered him. Same with a lot of the other bad deals.
      And the flip side to them paying a lot of money for guys who failed is this: If Jeter were with a small-payroll team, they wouldn’t be making mistakes like that because they wouldn’t be spending at all. It would be what A-Rod complained about with his time with the Rangers — it was him and 24 kids.

      And isn’t it just an amazing coinkadink that Pavano was a talented, durable pitcher in the seasons right before he came to the Yanks, and the seasons after he left the Yanks, but was the Amazing Shrinking Pitcher while he was on the Yanks?

    51. November 29th, 2010 | 8:00 pm

      @ Evan3457:

      What do you blame it on? Not being able to handle New York?

    52. Evan3457
      November 29th, 2010 | 9:11 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      @ Evan3457:
      What do you blame it on? Not being able to handle New York?

      Yes.

      And that was entirely unknowable before Pavano got here. He had just pitched well under severe pressure in the World Series in 2003.

    53. Raf
      November 29th, 2010 | 10:47 pm

      @ Evan3457:
      There was nothing stopping him from demanding a trade if he didn’t find NY to his liking.

      Also, he was shelled as a Marlin, and he was injured as a Marlin

      http://www.cliffordsbrb.blogspot.com/2004_12_12_archive.html
      “a pitcher with a five-year history of arm injuries, just two healthy major league seasons, and just one above average season…”

    54. Evan3457
      November 30th, 2010 | 1:21 am

      Raf wrote:

      @ Evan3457:
      There was nothing stopping him from demanding a trade if he didn’t find NY to his liking.
      Also, he was shelled as a Marlin, and he was injured as a Marlin
      http://www.cliffordsbrb.blogspot.com/2004_12_12_archive.html
      “a pitcher with a five-year history of arm injuries, just two healthy major league seasons, and just one above average season…”

      That’s not really fair or accurate; he was both effective and durable for the two seasons before he signed with the Yankees. He was never shelled with the Marlins; earlier in 2002, he was shelled for the Expos. Late in 2002, he made his only 8 starts for the Marlins that season. The team went 6-2, and he was 3-1 with a 4.17 ERA in 41 innings.

      In 2004, he made the All-Star team and was 6th in the voting for Cy Young. In 2003, he pitched very well for the Marlins in the post-season (very tiny sample, of course). Whatever he had been in 1998-2002, he was something altogether different in 2003-4, so much so that well-regarded GM’s such as Dombrowski and Epstein made comparable bids. Epstein is alleged to have bidded higher than the Yankees.

      Why he didn’t ask for a trade, I have no idea. Maybe he didn’t want to publicly admit he couldn’t handle it.

      And he’s been effective and durable after leaving the Yankees. That’s 4 effective and durable seasons wrapped around 4 ineffective Claude Raines seasons. I usually laugh at “conspiracy theories”, but in this case, the evidence keeps piling up, year by year.

    55. MJ Recanati
      November 30th, 2010 | 9:16 am

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Pavano was a talented, durable pitcher in the seasons right before he came to the Yanks

      Yes, in those two seasons right before joining the Yankees. But what about the seasons before that?

      Evan3457 wrote:

      That’s not really fair or accurate; he was both effective and durable for the two seasons before he signed with the Yankees.

      I don’t see how it’s not fair to point out that Pavano had a history of injuries before his back-to-back 200 IP seasons in ’03/’04 as part of his overall resume. There was clearly a medical history there with Pavano that manifested itself again with the Yankees.

      Whether you attribute part of his failure in New York to being unhappy or not, you can’t deny that he physically broke down in New York and that no mind-body connection can cause some of the injuries he suffered. That is, unless you believe that some of Pavano’s surgeries were purely elective in order to escape having to pitch here. I personally don’t believe anyone has elective elbow surgery unless there’s a reason to do so.

      Evan3457 wrote:

      well-regarded GM’s such as Dombrowski and Epstein made comparable bids. Epstein is alleged to have bidded higher than the Yankees.

      I’ve never understood why that matters. Good GM’s make mistakes all the time. Just because others wanted to sign Pavano doesn’t mean those attempts by other teams weren’t similarly misguided. Group-think doesn’t create a legitimate justification, it only shows that more than one person didn’t do his homework.

      ********

      Pavano’s rebirth over the past couple of seasons is great for him but I don’t believe in conspiracy theories and I don’t believe in the fallacy of New York being a tough place to play. Plenty of players fail in supposedly fan-friendly markets and plenty of players succeed in supposedly difficult markets. And, as Raf rightly asked, if he was so unhappy in New York, he could’ve easily asked for a trade or his outright release. There’s also no reason to believe that any request on his part would’ve become public knowledge. There was certainly enough reason for the Yanks to cut bait on him at any point after the 2005 or 2006 season and could’ve spun it as their decision, not his.

      Assuming Pavano was legitimately injured during his time in New York, his success post-New York doesn’t prove that New York was too tough for him. It could simply be that he’s finally healthy again.

      Chris Carpenter — one of the game’s best pitchers — pitched a total of 21.1 innings between 2007 and 2008. Now he’s back to being a perennial Cy Young candidate. It would seem to me that Pavano’s re-emergence is along the same lines. Reduced innings and time to heal, combined with a bit more luck along the way.

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