• Greinke To The Brewers

    Posted by on December 19th, 2010 · Comments (19)

    The scoop -

    According to a reliable source close to the team, the Brewers late Saturday agreed to terms with Kansas City on a deal that would send right-hander Zack Greinke to Milwaukee.

    In the deal, the Brewers would send the Royals outfielder Lorenzo Cain, shortstop Alcides Escobar and prospect pitchers Jake Odorizzi and Jeremy Jeffress for Greinke, who went 10-14 with a 4.17 ERA last season with Kansas City.

    The Brewers are expected to receive another “major league” player in the deal, according to the source. Jim Breem of the blog “Bernie’s Crew” reported that player to be shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt.

    Reportedly, Zack Greinke was never on the Yankees radar. And, that’s a good thing. But, what this deal does is that it sets the bar, in some respects, on what it will cost in today’s market to acquire a young but established starting pitcher where you still have some control over him. And, I doubt the Yankees can put together a package like this one that the Brewers gave the Royals, can they?

    And, for the record, the Yankees had a shot at Odorizzi back in 2008. But, they whiffed on that one.

    Comments on Greinke To The Brewers

    1. MJ Recanati
      December 19th, 2010 | 10:01 am

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      I doubt the Yankees can put together a package like this one that the Brewers gave the Royals, can they?

      Why do you doubt it? The Yankees could’ve traded for Greinke, it’s just a question of if they wanted to. They felt that Greinke was a bad fit for New York and that the cost in prospects for someone they felt wasn’t a sure thing was not a risk worth taking.

      While I personally disagree in their assessment of Greinke, I see no evidence to support your claim that the Yankees couldn’t have pulled off this kind of trade if they wanted to.

    2. December 19th, 2010 | 10:17 am

      @ MJ Recanati:
      Do they Yankees have a major league ready young OF and SS, a blue-chip highly touted SP prospect, and a RP prospect who throw 100 MPH, that they could have packaged like the Brewers did here? Who are they? What are their names?

      Do you think a package of Colin Curtis, Eduardo Nunez, David Phelps and Andrew Brackman could match the Brewers package?

      I don’t think so.

    3. MJ Recanati
      December 19th, 2010 | 10:20 am

      @ Steve Lombardi:
      There’s more than one way to skin a cat, Steve. Must every team’s trade package be identical?

    4. December 19th, 2010 | 10:27 am

      I know you want to minimize the Yankees’ system Steve, but they could have beaten this offer without putting a huge dent in the system. i know you like Odorizzi, but he’s seen as a 3 starter at best. Jeffress has the fastball but is clearly a reliever, and Escobar can’t hit. A package of Betances, Gardner, Brackman or Noesi (depending if you want high floor or ceiling), and Nunez is a better package, by most accounts.

    5. December 19th, 2010 | 10:28 am

      And these are not my estimations, BTW. Bstances and Brackman are both more highly regarded than Odorizzi at this point. Gardner is a better version of Cain. The only place where the Yankee hypo offer lags is at SS, but it makes up for it elsewhere.

    6. Evan3457
      December 19th, 2010 | 10:55 am

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      @ MJ Recanati:
      Do they Yankees have a major league ready young OF and SS, a blue-chip highly touted SP prospect, and a RP prospect who throw 100 MPH, that they could have packaged like the Brewers did here? Who are they? What are their names?
      Do you think a package of Colin Curtis, Eduardo Nunez, David Phelps and Andrew Brackman could match the Brewers package?
      I don’t think so.

      Yanks could’ve easily topped the Brewers offer had they chosen to. That’s not my opinion; that’s the Royals opinion. That’s why they allegedly were hoping the Yanks would get into it, to drive the bidding for Greinke up.

      Even if the Royals never intended to trade Greinke to the Royals, even if Greinke never intended to go to the Yanks, the fact that the Royals wanted the Yanks to enter the battle proves they thought the Yanks had plenty of talent to make a credible package, because you can’t get a team to raise its offer without a competitive offer from elsewhere.

    7. JeremyM
      December 19th, 2010 | 11:18 am

      Yanks easily could beat this package, not sure where you’re going with this one Steve. Never underestimate the ability of a Royals GM to f up a sure trade. Escobar appears to be a little better version of Nunez, Cain will be lucky to have a season as good as Gardner’s last season, the other guy is a high-upside prospect in the low minors (baseball is filled with those), and we’ll see on the PTBNL. At least it appears to be better then what KC got for Johnny Damon…

    8. MJ Recanati
      December 19th, 2010 | 6:57 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Do you think a package of Colin Curtis, Eduardo Nunez, David Phelps and Andrew Brackman could match the Brewers package?
      I don’t think so.

      Here’s one way they could’ve, and that’s in addition to the other comments above mine in this thread.

      http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2010/12/19/could-the-yankees-have-topped-the-greinke-offer/

      It absolutely kills you to admit that the Yankee farm system is considered one of the best in baseball but, fact is, that’s just the way it is.

    9. December 19th, 2010 | 10:10 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      It absolutely kills you to admit that the Yankee farm system is considered one of the best in baseball but, fact is, that’s just the way it is.

      If this were true, then why did Cashman have to spend a half billion dollars after 2008 to patch holes, and, then, why did they offer Cliff Lee the moon and stars for the next seven years, again to patch holes?

      If the farm system was as great as you claim, then why not trade the blue chippers for players and save money, or, promote from within to address those monster holes?

    10. Raf
      December 19th, 2010 | 11:39 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      If this were true, then why did Cashman have to spend a half billion dollars after 2008 to patch holes, and, then, why did they offer Cliff Lee the moon and stars for the next seven years, again to patch holes?

      If the farm system was as great as you claim, then why not trade the blue chippers for players and save money, or, promote from within to address those monster holes?

      Because he can? Besides, he has traded blue chippers, as well as promoted from within…

      Why do the Yankees need to save money? They’re doing what they’ve always done; throw money at players. Sparky Lyle won the Cy Young, it didn’t stop them from signing Goose Gossage. They won a (then) record 114 games, it didn’t stop them from adding Roger Clemens.

      Besides, big names put fannies in the seats.

    11. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 7:28 am

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      If this were true, then why did Cashman have to spend a half billion dollars after 2008 to patch holes, and, then, why did they offer Cliff Lee the moon and stars for the next seven years, again to patch holes?

      First, because spending money instead of prospects is always the preferable route when you can afford to. Second, the Yankee farm system is deeper today than it was in December 2008 and for you to argue that farm systems would remain static over time is a nice attempt at a straw-man. Third, as Raf said, the Yankees don’t need to save money and they don’t need to promote from within. They treat the farm system as an extension of their market power. Keep the best and trade the rest. Most other teams can’t afford to throw around prospects like that. The Yankees can.

      But, have it your way. You know more about minor league prospects than Baseball America and the rest of the independent minor league observers out there. Everyone is wrong and you’re right. If you’re telling me the Yankee farm system isn’t good then I guess you must be right.

      One can quarrel with a prospect’s grade or their ceiling, etc. but I really don’t understand how you can flatly deny the depth of the system at this point. Then again, a reflexive contrarian such as yourself sees things no one else sees so I suppose it’s par for the course.

    12. December 20th, 2010 | 8:04 am

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      First, because spending money instead of prospects is always the preferable route when you can afford to.

      Remind me of that when the Yankees are in the back end of the contracts for A-Rod, CC, Tex, Jeter and Burnett in 2013.

    13. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 9:12 am

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Remind me of that when the Yankees are in the back end of the contracts for A-Rod, CC, Tex, Jeter and Burnett in 2013.

      That’s $111.9M, according to the Cots site. If we assume a static budget at around $210M, that’s $100M for the rest of the team. I’m pretty sure the Yankees can find a way to build a team for $100M.

    14. bfriley76
      December 20th, 2010 | 9:56 am

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Steve Lombardi wrote:
      Do you think a package of Colin Curtis, Eduardo Nunez, David Phelps and Andrew Brackman could match the Brewers package?
      I don’t think so.
      Here’s one way they could’ve, and that’s in addition to the other comments above mine in this thread.
      http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2010/12/19/could-the-yankees-have-topped-the-greinke-offer/
      It absolutely kills you to admit that the Yankee farm system is considered one of the best in baseball but, fact is, that’s just the way it is.

      Or another
      http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/16867703797063681

    15. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 10:51 am

      @ bfriley76:
      I just had a buddy read me that Heyman tween because Twitter’s blocked here at the office. Interesting. Seems like KC wanted Montero all along and couldn’t get the Yankees to bite on Greinke.

      If that’s the case, Steve’s theory is blown into the toilet. The Yanks could’ve gotten Greinke if they wanted but were the ones to take a pass.

    16. bfriley76
      December 20th, 2010 | 11:09 am

      Sorry MJ. For anyone else, it read:

      @SI_JonHeyman
      #royals sought montero & nunez from #yankees for greinke, who told kc he’d go. but yanks werent convinced ny was right for kid

      But yes, kind of blows Steve’s theory out of the water.

    17. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 11:11 am

      @ bfriley76:
      No worries, that’s what friends are for (to read firewalled Tweets, LOL).

    18. December 21st, 2010 | 9:23 am

      bfriley76 wrote:

      But yes, kind of blows Steve’s theory out of the water.

      Really? Nah. See:

      Unlike a week ago, when Cliff Lee’s free-agent
      deal with the Phillies hit the Yankees like a
      punch to the gut, the Bombers were largely
      unmoved by the trade that sent Zack Greinke from the Royals to the Brewers.

      “We knew they were going to move him,” one
      Yankees official said. “And it wasn’t going to be here.”

      The Yankees had internal concerns about Greinke’s
      ability to handle the bright lights of New York,
      citing his battles with social anxiety disorder
      early in his career. The Yankees had reached out
      to the Royals earlier this winter to inquire
      about Greinke, but they never made an offer for the pitcher.

      from:
      http://tinyurl.com/3ydqnbq

    19. MJ Recanati
      December 21st, 2010 | 10:17 am

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Really? Nah.

      Actually, yeah. Your theory was that the Yankees didn’t have a good enough crop of minor leaguers to get the deal done. You framed your theory by trying to piece an identical package to the one Milwaukee gave up without acknowledging that two trade packages don’t have to be identical in scope, merely identical in value (more or less) in order to get a trade done.

      You based your theory on your misguided opinion that the Yankee farm system is overrated or poorly regarded outside of New York.

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Do they Yankees have a major league ready young OF and SS, a blue-chip highly touted SP prospect, and a RP prospect who throw 100 MPH, that they could have packaged like the Brewers did here? Who are they? What are their names?Do you think a package of Colin Curtis, Eduardo Nunez, David Phelps and Andrew Brackman could match the Brewers package?I don’t think so.

      The Tweet from Heyman indicates that the Royals had an interest in Montero and Nunez but that the Yankees, for their own reasons, decided against moving forward with the Royals. In fact, your own comment directly above corroborates that the Yankees weren’t interested in Greinke. As a result, it invalidates your theory that the Yankees couldn’t have gotten a trade done with the Royals. The Royals were interested in engaging the Yankees and asked Greinke to remove the Yanks from his limited no-trade list. The Yankees, on the other hand, simply didn’t want to move forward.

      I don’t see how your theory that the Yankees couldn’t have built a package to get Greinke jibes with everything else we already know.

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