• Cashman: What, Me Worry? I Have Until July!

    Posted by on December 20th, 2010 · Comments (100)

    Via Wally Matthews

    Having finished second, or maybe third, in the Cliff Lee sweepstakes, the Yankees are prepared to go into the 2011 season with a pitching rotation of CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Phil Hughes , with the remaining spots filled out by youngsters, many of whom have never pitched above the Triple-A level.

    “I’m not saying I want to do it,” general manager Brian Cashman said in a telephone conversation Monday morning, “but I may have to do it.”

    Cashman is operating under the assumption that Andy Pettitte, back home in Deer, Park, Texas, following a an excellent season cut short by a groin injury, will not be returning for a 17th major league season.

    “If we get Pettitte back, so much the better,” Cashman said. “But I’m not waiting for him. He told me not to.”

    Cashman acknowledged his team could use a major league ready starter as well as another arm in the bullpen but seemed pessimistic about the chances of getting one before Opening Day.

    “Could I go out and get a starter? Yes, I could. But there’s just not much out there,” Cashman said. “I have March, April, May, June and July, really, to come up with someone.”

    Cashman also ruled out, although not absolutely, the possibility the Yankees might include catching prospect Jesus Montero in a trade for a front-line starter now that the Yankees have signed Russell Martin to assume every-day catching duties. “There’s just nobody out there I would consider trading Montero for,” Cashman said.

    “We have 10 prospects starting from Double-A on up that our organization can choose from,” Cashman said.

    The GM ruled out a return to the rotation for Joba Chamberlain, who along with David Robertson will compete for the job as eighth-inning set-up man vacated when Kerry Wood became a free agent.

    “In the past, we might have gone out and traded away prospects just to get someone in here,” Cashman said. “But realistically, I have until July to get this solved.”

    Just wonderful. So, it’s going to be “2008″ again in Yankeeland – in 2011. Remember then? That’s when Cashman went with kids like Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation to start the season. And, they were later replaced with Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson. Oh, and, by the way, the Yankees finished in third in 2008 and missed making the post-season for the first time in what seemed like forever.

    What’s that line about those who do not learn from history being damned to repeat it?

    Comments on Cashman: What, Me Worry? I Have Until July!

    1. Corey Italiano
      December 20th, 2010 | 1:34 pm

      Let’s not forget that the main problem in 2008 was the offense, not the pitching (which seems strange considering).

    2. The Sandman
      December 20th, 2010 | 1:51 pm

      The Giants won the 2010 world series with these starting pitchers;
      Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, Barry Zito, Jonathan Sanchez, Madison Bumgarner. Not exactly a world series winning rotation on paper but I guess that is why they play the games. Let’s at least wait until April/May before we give up on the season and say Cashman is a failure.

    3. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 2:20 pm

      @ Corey Italiano:
      Steve forgets whatever is convenient to make his argument.

    4. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 2:25 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      What’s that line about those who do not learn from history being damned to repeat it?

      You’re right. The Yanks should look back upon their history and make a bad trade for a veteran starter, rob themselves of valuable minor league assets and still miss the playoffs because that veteran starter was available via trade for a reason (he wasn’t very good). Failing that, the Yanks should go into the free agent market and sign whatever veteran starters are available to contracts of those players’ choosing so they can appease critics such as yourself that they’re actually doing something.

      Those are both plays from Yankee history. Fortunately for more even-keeled Yankee fans, Brian Cashman has learned from those mistakes and won’t be doing either.

    5. December 20th, 2010 | 2:27 pm

      @ The Sandman:

      Don’t quite see your comparison. The Giants have a lot of good young pitchers, one of whom is already a superstar, and one of whom is on his way to becoming one. Tim Lincecum won the Cy Young Award the previous two seasons. Cain is a first-round draft pick who had a 3.14 ERA this year. Jonathan Sanchez and Madison Bumgarner also had ERAs around 3. Heck, as terrible as Barry Zito has been, his ERA was still 4.15 last year.

      Do the Yankees have a rotation even close to that? No way. Sergio Mitre isn’t a star on the rise. It’s too soon to know what Nova will be like, A.J. Burnett is a big ol’ question mark, and Hughes wore out by the end of last year.

      How Cashman can go from saying his offseason priority was, “pitching, pitching, and more pitching” to saying it’s okay to have big gaping holes in the rotation for the first four months of the year is astonishing.

    6. December 20th, 2010 | 2:29 pm

      @ MJ Recanati: I usually agree with you, MJ, but this is a win-now team. This isn’t bridge-year time, not given how many aging players are on the Yankees.

    7. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 2:33 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      I usually agree with you, MJ, but this is a win-now team. This isn’t bridge-year time, not given how many aging players are on the Yankees.

      So you suggest that the Yankees trade Jesus Montero and other prospects for, say, Derek Lowe? Or, perhaps, Montero and prospects for Jeremy Guthrie?

      C’mon Lisa, I know this is a win-now team. It was a win-now team in 2008 also. But that doesn’t mean you make a stupid decision on the basis of a “win-now” mandate. If an opportunity presents itself, I’m certain that Cashman will explore it. He obviously has no incentive to sit back and not make the playoffs in 2011 considering his own contract status and the team’s payroll, etc. Cashman wants to make the playoffs as much as the fan base does.

      It just doesn’t make sense to make a bad trade or a crippling signing because fans are upset that, on December 20th, the rotation lacks the known quantities we’ve become accustomed to. Why run an organization into the ground like that? Why dilute the value of Jesus Montero for pennies on the dollar?

    8. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 2:34 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      How Cashman can go from saying his offseason priority was, “pitching, pitching, and more pitching” to saying it’s okay to have big gaping holes in the rotation for the first four months of the year is astonishing.

      Did Cashman say it was OK to have “gaping holes” in his rotation or did he say that the market is unappealing to him and that he won’t force a decision out of desperation?

      You’re being quite liberal with your interpretation of events.

    9. December 20th, 2010 | 2:52 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      How Cashman can go from saying his offseason priority was, “pitching, pitching, and more pitching” to saying it’s okay to have big gaping holes in the rotation for the first four months of the year is astonishing.

      Amen sister.

    10. December 20th, 2010 | 2:56 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Did Cashman say it was OK to have “gaping holes” in his rotation

      Uh, yeah. 20% of his rotation is TBD right now. That’s a a gaping hole. Everybody knows it, even a dullard like Cashman. No need to say it. And, by him saying there’s no need to address it, at least for the next six months, he’s saying he’s OK with it.

    11. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 2:57 pm

      What happened to the Yanks in 2008, was the same thing that happened to the Red Sox last year; a bunch of injuries torpedoed the season.

      @ lisaswan:
      The Cardinals won in 2006 with a less than inspiring rotation.

      At any rate guys, let’s see how things shake out before gathering the torches and pitchforks, shall we?

    12. EHawk
      December 20th, 2010 | 2:58 pm

      I agree that their is a pitching need but I also agree the Yanks should trade away top minor league talent for the likes of Derrick Lowe either. I think you hope a guy like King Felix or Josh Johnson becomes available and swoop in and get them. If you haven’t read Joel Sherman’s 3UP today then here it is…he makes some good points on the fact pitching aces will be available.

      http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/up_happy_holidays_yankee_pitching_YIJeU54eeyeGPbdD40lMtO

    13. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 2:59 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Uh, yeah. 20% of his rotation is TBD right now. That’s a a gaping hole. Everybody knows it, even a dullard like Cashman. No need to say it. And, by him saying there’s no need to address it, at least for the next six months, he’s saying he’s OK with it.

      Gosh, I’m as stupid as Cashman is then. I could’ve sworn he was saying that the trade market and free agent market were barren and that, as a result, he wouldn’t rush to make a foolish move whose result wouldn’t guarantee any improved outcomes. I didn’t realize that all translated to him saying he was OK with an unsettled rotation.

    14. December 20th, 2010 | 3:01 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      You’re right. The Yanks should look back upon their history and make a bad trade for a veteran starter, rob themselves of valuable minor league assets

      When was the last time the Yankees traded a young pitcher or hitter who went on to have an outstanding major league career? Doug Drabek? Scott McGregor? Jay Buhner? Willie McGee? How long ago was that? Maybe A QUARTER CENTURY AGO?

      Wow. Let’s be afraid of opposing players sticking hot dogs in the gloves of our players when they leave them on the field, too.

    15. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:02 pm

      Corey Italiano wrote:

      Just wonderful. So, it’s going to be “2008″ again in Yankeeland – in 2011. Remember then? That’s when Cashman went with kids like Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation to start the season. And, they were later replaced with Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson.

      Yet, the 2008 team gave up less runs than the 2009 team
      2008: 4.49
      2009: 4.65

      Funny how that works :)

    16. December 20th, 2010 | 3:03 pm

      @ Raf:
      Park Index. New Yankee Stadium was a homer haven in 2009.

    17. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:04 pm

      oops, quoted the wrong person…

      E-Raf…

    18. G.I. Joey
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:07 pm

      For those of you that are harping on Cashman, what exactly do you think is the best thing for him to do right now? Trade Montero for a proven front-end starter? Greinke was the only one close to fitting that description and we all know why the Yanks had reservations about him. Whether you agree with their assesment of him or not, the ship has already sailed. Even if they did get him, there would still be another spot to fill. So I ask again, what is the best thing for him to do RIGHT NOW besides hope Andy comes back and make some moves before the deadline in July?

    19. December 20th, 2010 | 3:07 pm

      @ MJ Recanati: Can he at least have the gumption to call up Andy Pettitte, and throw some money at him? It’s worth a try. I don’t like the whole “la di da” tone of Cashman’s comments.

      As for Cash trading Montero, I’d be more sure he’d be around if the Yanks didn’t sign Russell Martin.

    20. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:09 pm

      @ EHawk:
      Interesting article. Sherman’s logic was lost on me, however. He’s making a prediction that Felix Hernandez will be traded based on a patter of previous AL Cy Young Award winners being traded? That’s sort of silly, if you ask me.

      Hernandez is due to earn $10M in 2011; in other words, he’s super-cheap right now. Hernandez doesn’t get more expensive until the 2012-2014 seasons when he’ll earn, on average, $19.3M per season for those three seasons. That means the Mariners have all of the 2011 season and all of next offseason to cash in on a controlled asset that happens to be, arguably, the best pitcher in the American League.

      I don’t see the Mariners trading Hernandez before next offseason at the absolute earliest.

    21. G.I. Joey
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:09 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      When was the last time the Yankees traded a young pitcher or hitter who went on to have an outstanding major league career? Doug Drabek? Scott McGregor? Jay Buhner? Willie McGee? How long ago was that? Maybe A QUARTER CENTURY AGO? Wow. Let’s be afraid of opposing players sticking hot dogs in the gloves of our players when they leave them on the field, too.

      The way you talked up Austin Jackson last year in reference to the Granderson trade being a mistake had me believing that you thought this kid was on his way to having an outstanding career.

    22. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:11 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      When was the last time the Yankees traded a young pitcher or hitter who went on to have an outstanding major league career? Doug Drabek? Scott McGregor? Jay Buhner? Willie McGee? How long ago was that? Maybe A QUARTER CENTURY AGO?

      Not getting your point. You brought up past Yankee history and I pointed out that the Yankees have made foolish trades in the past. If you’re saying that the Yankees should trade prospects for a veteran major league pitcher then go ahead and build me a sensible package.

    23. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:12 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      @ How Cashman can go from saying his offseason priority was, “pitching, pitching, and more pitching” to saying it’s okay to have big gaping holes in the rotation for the first four months of the year is astonishing.

      He made his move; his move was Lee, and Lee wanted the Phillies. They may have been wrong about Grienke, but considering the price required, I don’t blame them for weighing the guy’s mental state

      No pitcher you’d consider as an equivalent to Lee is available for anything less than a ruinous price, especially now, when the sharks are circling and smell blood in the water.

      MJ is right; if you make a move for pitching now, you wind up doing something extraordinarily stupid, like Banuelos or Betances for Lowe or Guthrie.

      It may well be that given the current market of available/price, the Yanks’ best move is to wait, tread water with what they have, and hope for a better market at the deadline.

      Even if it’s not the best move, the best thing for Cashman to say is what he keeps saying. I don’t understand why people have such trouble with the concept that if keep talking about how much you need starting pitching, how much you want starting pitching, how desperate you are for starting pitching, the price goes UP, not down.

      Now, you may not be able to fool other teams bluffing strong hand, but it can’t hurt to try. As it happens, the Yanks are still a good team, just not the strongest team at the moment. They are very likely to be well within the race after 60 games (mid-June). At that point, they can assess what the have and what they need, assess the market to see what’s available and for what price.

      So when Cashman says he has until at least July, it’s 1) a strong bluff position, 2) might actually work out if Nova comes through, and 3) the right thing to be saying publicly, whether he really believes it or not.

    24. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:14 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      Can he at least have the gumption to call up Andy Pettitte, and throw some money at him? It’s worth a try. I don’t like the whole “la di da” tone of Cashman’s comments.

      Do you know that he hasn’t done that? Heck, Cashman and Andy both know eachother well enough by now that it shouldn’t even take that. If Andy wants to come back, he’ll tell Cashman his price. Based on the good season he was having before the injury, and based on the Yankees need of him, I’m sure Andy will come up with a price appropriately above his true market value. And, based on the Yankee way of overpaying their own, I’m sure Cashman will not blink.

      lisaswan wrote:

      As for Cash trading Montero, I’d be more sure he’d be around if the Yanks didn’t sign Russell Martin.

      The Yanks aren’t trading Montero. Not in 2011. Russell Martin has nothing to do with it. Moreover, since there isn’t a single pitcher out there that is either (1) available and/or (2) worth a player of Montero’s stature, it makes the likelihood of a Montero trade even more unlikely…

      …except, apparently, in your ideal scenario where Cashman trades Montero for a veteran pitcher just because.

    25. December 20th, 2010 | 3:15 pm

      G.I. Joey wrote:

      For those of you that are harping on Cashman, what exactly do you think is the best thing for him to do right now?

      Jump in a Delorean, go back in time to 2005, resign from the Yankees and allow them to hire a GM with the foresight, and a successful plan, to prevent them from being in this spot, 5 years later, at the end of 2010.

    26. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:16 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      It may well be that given the current market of available/price, the Yanks’ best move is to wait, tread water with what they have, and hope for a better market at the deadline. Even if it’s not the best move, the best thing for Cashman to say is what he keeps saying. I don’t understand why people have such trouble with the concept that if keep talking about how much you need starting pitching, how much you want starting pitching, how desperate you are for starting pitching, the price goes UP, not down. Now, you may not be able to fool other teams bluffing strong hand, but it can’t hurt to try. As it happens, the Yanks are still a good team, just not the strongest team at the moment. They are very likely to be well within the race after 60 games (mid-June). At that point, they can assess what the have and what they need, assess the market to see what’s available and for what price.So when Cashman says he has until at least July, it’s 1) a strong bluff position, 2) might actually work out if Nova comes through, and 3) the right thing to be saying publicly, whether he really believes it or not.

      Good heavens, why is Evan the only one that understands this?

    27. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:17 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      MJ Recanati wrote:
      Did Cashman say it was OK to have “gaping holes” in his rotation
      Uh, yeah. 20% of his rotation is TBD right now. That’s a a gaping hole. Everybody knows it, even a dullard like Cashman. No need to say it. And, by him saying there’s no need to address it, at least for the next six months, he’s saying he’s OK with it.

      No, he’s not saying “he’s OK with a gaping hole in the rotation for the next six months”. That’s your interpretation, and in my opinion, an incorrect interpretation.

      In my opinion, the correct interpretations is this:

      “I know the rotation is weak at the back end, but right, there are no good options for fixing, because teams think we’re desperate, and they want to screw us into the ground. Too bad for them, because I DON’T really have to make a move right now, or in February, March, April and May. If we’re still short in the back end in June or July, we can make a move then, if a smart one’s out there.”

      And if he acts in exactly that way, the next time this happens, teams won’t jerk him around as much.

    28. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:19 pm

      @ Steve Lombardi:
      According to B-Ref, it should be the other way around; 2009 Batting – 97, Pitching – 96 and 2008 Batting – 103, Pitching – 102.

      I’m going by the year by year total, not the multi year summary. I do agree that there are several factors that go into year by year changes, and the New Yankee Stadium seems to be all over the map; 2010 Batting – 113, Pitching – 111. The 2010 squad gave up less runs (4.28) than the 2008 or 09 editions, no doubt helped by less runs being scored overall.

      FWIW AL R/G
      2008: 4.68
      2009: 4.75
      2010: 4.42

    29. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:19 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Jump in a Delorean, go back in time to 2005, resign from the Yankees and allow them to hire a GM with the foresight, and a successful plan, to prevent them from being in this spot, 5 years later, at the end of 2010.

      Hysterical much?

    30. G.I. Joey
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:20 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      G.I. Joey wrote:For those of you that are harping on Cashman, what exactly do you think is the best thing for him to do right now? Jump in a Delorean, go back in time to 2005, resign from the Yankees and allow them to hire a GM with the foresight, and a successful plan, to prevent them from being in this spot, 5 years later, at the end of 2010.

      Great Scott!

    31. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:22 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      MJ Recanati wrote:
      You’re right. The Yanks should look back upon their history and make a bad trade for a veteran starter, rob themselves of valuable minor league assets
      When was the last time the Yankees traded a young pitcher or hitter who went on to have an outstanding major league career? Doug Drabek? Scott McGregor? Jay Buhner? Willie McGee? How long ago was that? Maybe A QUARTER CENTURY AGO?
      Wow. Let’s be afraid of opposing players sticking hot dogs in the gloves of our players when they leave them on the field, too.

      Coming from the man lamenting the trade of Austin Jackson for all of last season, this is…ummm…ironic.

    32. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:22 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Do you know that he hasn’t done that? Heck, Cashman and Andy both know eachother well enough by now that it shouldn’t even take that. If Andy wants to come back, he’ll tell Cashman his price.

      I wonder if we’ll have another “Waldman” moment at the Stadium, if Pettitte decides he wants to come back sometime during the season :D

    33. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:26 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      @ MJ Recanati: Can he at least have the gumption to call up Andy Pettitte, and throw some money at him? It’s worth a try. I don’t like the whole “la di da” tone of Cashman’s comments.
      As for Cash trading Montero, I’d be more sure he’d be around if the Yanks didn’t sign Russell Martin.

      lisa: Cashman offered Montero for Halladay and Lee only.
      I don’t think he’ll be traded for any pitcher unless they’re in the same general class; i.e., Felix, si; Carlos, no.

    34. December 20th, 2010 | 3:27 pm

      @ MJ Recanati:
      “…except, apparently, in your ideal scenario where Cashman trades Montero for a veteran pitcher just because.”

      Where did I say that? Or call it my “ideal scenario”? I’d appreciate it if you didn’t put words in my mouth, because that’s not what I said.

      Besides, wasn’t it Cashman who wanted to trade Montero for Joakim Soria (the Royals turned it down)? Or for 2 1/2 months of Cliff Lee? I thought both trades were really bad ideas. So I don’t quite get how that translates into me wanting to “trade Montero for trash” scenario. It’s Cashman who has repeatedly offered him out there for less than his full market value.

      As for the Pettitte comments, Cashman said, ““If we get Pettitte back, so much the better,” Cashman said. “But I’m not waiting for him. He told me not to.” That doesn’t sound like somebody in aggressive pursuit.

    35. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:27 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      I don’t understand why people have such trouble with the concept that if keep talking about how much you need starting pitching, how much you want starting pitching, how desperate you are for starting pitching, the price goes UP, not down.

      You’ve seen and lived through the Steinbrenner years (particularly the 80′s), I think you understand why panic is usually en vogue in Yankeeland.

    36. ken
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:30 pm

      Cashman is playing this smart. He knows that teams are always going to try to get more from the Yankees in a trade than from other teams. If he admits what he wants then it only makes that worse. Also, without the intense pressure from The Boss (RIP) he can be smart and wait. Whatever he can get today is not much different than next month or a few months from now.

    37. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:32 pm

      I’d love to play poker with some of you guys :D

    38. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:35 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      Where did I say that? Or call it my “ideal scenario”? I’d appreciate it if you didn’t put words in my mouth, because that’s not what I said.

      Ya kinda put words into Cashman’s mouth, right? I mean, you made an inference supported by your own perspective on how events are unfolding and then made a statement that Cashman was saying such-and-such.

      I took your complaints and analyzed them and inferred in much the same way.

    39. December 20th, 2010 | 3:36 pm

      @ ken: So, other teams are going to go easy on Cashman because they believe this spin? Come on now. Not buying that for a minute. They’re going to ask for the moon, like they always do with Cashman, because it’s the Yankees.

      I don’t see why Cashman needed to say anything at all right now. I think his comments are both arrogant and unhelpful.

    40. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:37 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      As for the Pettitte comments, Cashman said, ““If we get Pettitte back, so much the better,” Cashman said. “But I’m not waiting for him. He told me not to.” That doesn’t sound like somebody in aggressive pursuit.

      Pettitte told him not to. To me that’s keeping a professional distance and following (and respecting) the instructions of a player you’re intimately associated with.

      The Yanks lose nothing by letting Andy come to his own decisions.

    41. December 20th, 2010 | 3:37 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Coming from the man lamenting the trade of Austin Jackson for all of last season, this is…ummm…ironic.

      G.I. Joey wrote:

      The way you talked up Austin Jackson last year in reference to the Granderson trade being a mistake had me believing that you thought this kid was on his way to having an outstanding career.

      Hey, when I was upset about the Jackson for Granderson deal, YOU guys all jumped on me and said to wait and see how Jackson’s career went. So, I listened. And, I’m waiting.

    42. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:37 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Just wonderful. So, it’s going to be “2008″ again in Yankeeland – in 2011. Remember then? That’s when Cashman went with kids like Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation to start the season. And, they were later replaced with Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson. Oh, and, by the way, the Yankees finished in third in 2008 and missed making the post-season for the first time in what seemed like forever.

      What’s that line about those who do not learn from history being damned to repeat it?

      Exactly right, but not the way you intend it.

      Because the Yanks are impatient, because they must win every season, they only gave Hughes and Kennedy about 7-8 starts each before quitting on them.

      They didn’t let them take their lumps, setting Hughes’ development back a full year, and burying Kennedy in AAA. I said multiple times on this site that Kennedy would eventually be a solid #4 starter for someone, and he is, now.

      OK, he wouldn’t be as good in the AL East, but still, he’s a better alternative to Mitre at #5 right now, and also Nova at #4, and his mere presence would be a small deterrent against teams taking the “let’s fugaze with the Yanks in our trade demands for a starter”.

      The running Kennedy out of town on a rail motivational strategy minimized his value as an asset to the Yanks (not a huge asset, granted, but still, a significant one).

      Let’s hope if they go with Nova and say, Adams, and eventually, Brackman and Betances and Banuelos, history doesn’t repeat itself, and they give them a little more than 6 weeks to get their feet planted at the big league level. Starting them in long relief would be a good move. Re-signing Pettitte would make that feasible.

      Oh, and as the Yanks were within, what was it, a half game of the wild card in early August, the injuries to Posada and Wang, and Cano’s down year were much more critical to their failure to make the post-season than Hughes’ and Kennedy’s follies.

    43. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:40 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      @ ken: So, other teams are going to go easy on Cashman because they believe this spin? Come on now. Not buying that for a minute. They’re going to ask for the moon, like they always do with Cashman, because it’s the Yankees.
      I don’t see why Cashman needed to say anything at all right now. I think his comments are both arrogant and unhelpful.

      Depends on two things:
      The first is that his actions back up his words; the second is that the Yanks stay in the race as Cashman holds the line.

      If both those things happen, his bluff is sound, and prices will drop.

    44. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:41 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      Besides, wasn’t it Cashman who wanted to trade Montero for Joakim Soria (the Royals turned it down)? Or for 2 1/2 months of Cliff Lee? I thought both trades were really bad ideas. So I don’t quite get how that translates into me wanting to “trade Montero for trash” scenario. It’s Cashman who has repeatedly offered him out there for less than his full market value.

      I’m confused, Lisa. If you’re complaining that Cashman is being passive with the pitching staff, if you’re complaining that Cashman said one thing (“pitching, pitching, pitching”) but is doing another (“saying a gaping hole is OK”) then it seems like you’d advise him to acquire another pitcher. The only way to do that is to sign a free agent or to trade for a pitcher on another team.

      The free agent pitchers out there are underwhelming, to say the least. The trade candidates may or may not cost Jesus Montero based on a number of factors, not least of which are the perception of a desperate Yankee team.

      If you’re saying it was a bad idea for Cashman to offer Montero for the best pitcher available in last year’s market and you’re saying Cashman isn’t doing enough to add pitching, I ask you to tell us what you’d suggest here. You seem to be complaining about inactivity without accepting that activity would either potentially cost Montero or cost the team a wasted roster spot for someone like Kevin Millwood.

    45. December 20th, 2010 | 3:42 pm

      @ MJ Recanati: Huh? I wrote that Cashman went from “saying his offseason priority was, “pitching, pitching, and more pitching” to saying it’s okay to have big gaping holes in the rotation for the first four months of the year.”

      Given that he said “I have until July to get this solved” and “I have March, April, May, June and July, really, to come up with someone,” I don’t think that was putting words in his mouth. He brought up that they could go four months with these rotation issues, after all. And they do have gaping holes in the rotation right now.

    46. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:42 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      @ MJ Recanati:
      Besides, wasn’t it Cashman who wanted to trade Montero for Joakim Soria (the Royals turned it down)?

      Unsubstantiated rumor caused by Heyman piggybacking on a Jayson Stark quote, or was it the other way around? I forget.

    47. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:45 pm

      Raf wrote:

      You’ve seen and lived through the Steinbrenner years (particularly the 80′s), I think you understand why panic is usually en vogue in Yankeeland.

      Was hoping that would change some with Hal and Cashman now in charge. I think it has, to a certain extent.

      Also, was not specifically referring to Yankees management there, but the reaction here (and elsewhere) to Cashman’s quote.

    48. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:45 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      Given that he said “I have until July to get this solved” and “I have March, April, May, June and July, really, to come up with someone,” I don’t think that was putting words in his mouth. He brought up that they could go four months with these rotation issues, after all. And they do have gaping holes in the rotation right now.

      Again, he never said it was OK to have a questionable rotation. He merely said that the alternative — a hasty signing or an ill-conceived trade — has left him thinking that it’s better to wait and let the market develop.

    49. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:45 pm

      @ Evan3457:
      To be fair, both Hughes and Kennedy got hurt in 2008, and Kennedy had surgery to repair an aneurysm in 2009.

    50. December 20th, 2010 | 3:46 pm

      @ Evan3457:
      “The running Kennedy out of town on a rail motivational strategy minimized his value as an asset to the Yanks (not a huge asset, granted, but still, a significant one).”

      That was Cashman’s trade. You can debate whether it was a good idea, but the fans, and the media, had nothing to do with it. If they held such sway, after all, Javy Part Deux would never have happened.

    51. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:46 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Was hoping that would change some with Hal and Cashman now in charge. I think it has, to a certain extent.

      I think it has too. The Yankees are not, and likely never will be, the model of efficiency. But they’re getting better every year now that Boss isn’t in charge.

    52. December 20th, 2010 | 3:48 pm

      @ MJ Recanati:
      There’s a difference between Cliff Lee and Kevin Millwood. Could the Yankees get somebody in between? Or, again, pursue Andy Pettitte (and I don’t believe for a minute that he would be annoyed if the Yanks pursued him.)

    53. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:49 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Also, was not specifically referring to Yankees management there, but the reaction here (and elsewhere) to Cashman’s quote.

      As was I. The current regime, and to be honest it has been that way since George was suspended, doesn’t have a history of making panic moves.

    54. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:50 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      There’s a difference between Cliff Lee and Kevin Millwood. Could the Yankees get somebody in between?

      Here’s a list of the 2011 free agents. Show me who you’re thinking of.

      http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/05/potential-free-agents-for-2011.html

      You see anything you like? I don’t.

    55. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:51 pm

      Raf wrote:

      @ Evan3457:
      To be fair, both Hughes and Kennedy got hurt in 2008, and Kennedy had surgery to repair an aneurysm in 2009.

      Absolutely true; but I think the organization soured on Kennedy’s “relaxed” attitude after his repeated beatings in 2008. Had he not been dealt in the Granderson trade, it would’ve taken several rotation injuries and a signed note from God for him to get another.

    56. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:52 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      Or, again, pursue Andy Pettitte (and I don’t believe for a minute that he would be annoyed if the Yanks pursued him.)

      Whether he’d be annoyed or not is irrelevant. Since neither you nor I know if Cashman and Pettitte are in dialogue, there’s hardly a point to assuming that they are (or aren’t).

      If Andy wants to come back, he knows he’s got a contract waiting for him at around $12-15M. I imagine that Cashman told Pettitte he’s welcome back and that, should he decide to return, it’ll only take a phone call and a few faxes to get it done.

    57. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:54 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Had he not been dealt in the Granderson trade, it would’ve taken several rotation injuries and a signed note from God for him to get another.

      Perhaps. But considering the Yankees just got their best everyday work from a CF since Bernie Williams in 2002 (or 2003?), it’s not a trade worth revisiting. A starting CF is worth more than a 5th starter in my opinion.

    58. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:55 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      Was hoping that would change some with Hal and Cashman now in charge. I think it has, to a certain extent.
      I think it has too. The Yankees are not, and likely never will be, the model of efficiency. But they’re getting better every year now that Boss isn’t in charge.

      Efficiency can never be maximized while maintaining the hard-line ideology of “must win World Series every year”.
      You don’t get to take a “sabbatical” year like the Sox did last year when the injuries strike. The Sox took their lumps, had a ton of money going out, waited like a cobra to strike, and pounced on Crawford and Gonzalez when they became available. That’s how it’s done.

      But you have to have a mature ownership willing to take the heat from a fanatical fan base paying through the nose and a media that thinks it knows more about baseball than the professional men running the outfit. If your ownership can stand its ground, then you can afford to be patient, which makes being efficient a helluva lot easier.

    59. ken
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:57 pm

      It takes YEARS to change the makeup of a team/organization. We are still living with the misguided Boss-directed efforts that started with signing Giambi and continued with many other expensive acquisitions and trading of prospects. It is finally starting to turn around for the better.

      Don’t forget, if George was not suspended from baseball, it is very possible that some or all of today’s “core four” would have been stars elsewhere. He did not have the patience to let prospects mature. Signing Giambi changed the philosophy of the team that was built and won in the 90′s. If George were alive, no way 2/3 of the outfield today would be Gardner and Swish. More likely to have aging former stars making 20m/yr in all 3 positions.

    60. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:57 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Efficiency can never be maximized while maintaining the hard-line ideology of “must win World Series every year”.

      Agreed. I’m not lamenting it; I completely understand. Just pointing out that there is an equilibrium that the Yankees are approaching between the short-sighted and the long-dated moves. Whereas the Yankees under Boss lived for today alone, Cashman is helping the team strike a more rational balance between today and tomorrow.

    61. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:58 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      Had he not been dealt in the Granderson trade, it would’ve taken several rotation injuries and a signed note from God for him to get another.
      Perhaps. But considering the Yankees just got their best everyday work from a CF since Bernie Williams in 2002 (or 2003?), it’s not a trade worth revisiting. A starting CF is worth more than a 5th starter in my opinion.

      Was not saying that trading for Granderson was bad. It wasn’t.

      Was saying that had they not minimized Kennedy, they might have been able to get Granderson at a lower overall cost. Might have been able to keep Coke, for instance, or maybe get a righty reliever back. That’s the efficiency I’m talking about.

      The Kennedy they traded for Granderson, well that deal’s OK in my book, too. But if Kennedy had been permitted to develop, they could’ve gotten more for him…or paid less for Granderson. Or something.

    62. Ryan81
      December 20th, 2010 | 3:59 pm

      Cashman has more than enough parts to make a trade. The question is does he give up the right parts for the right players. Despite the fact that I am currently not the least impressed that this is the rotation that $200 million gets the Yankees right now, I’m not going to harp on Cashman for not getting a starting pitcher tomorrow. He can be patient; the games don’t start for another 3 1/2 months and the “real ones” don’t start until September. On top of that, I personally thought the Mariners would be in contention, if not win, the AL West last year, which would’ve meant Lee should have never been on the market. The point is, the trade market is weak, Cashman has no leverage currently, and is doing the right thing by not letting the Royals/Mariners/Marlins/whoever ask for the moon and the stars for basically a name Cashman can take back to the Steinbrenners and the fan base as a moral victory.

      That being said, can anyone please point to me any moment in this guy’s soon-to-be-14th season with the Yankees that says he’ll get us the above-average pitcher that can make a positive contribution as a 2nd or 3rd starter in the playoffs at the trade deadline? And that doesn’t even include the fact that hopefully he doesn’t trade away another Rookie of the Year. Cashman and his transaction history, so heavily based on throwing money at players like CC and Tex, just doesn’t inspire any confidence in me or most other Yankee fans right now.

    63. Ryan81
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:00 pm

      Jesus you guys really are having a heated discussion.

    64. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:00 pm

      ken wrote:

      It takes YEARS to change the makeup of a team/organization. We are still living with the misguided Boss-directed efforts that started with signing Giambi and continued with many other expensive acquisitions and trading of prospects. It is finally starting to turn around for the better.
      Don’t forget, if George was not suspended from baseball, it is very possible that some or all of today’s “core four” would have been stars elsewhere. He did not have the patience to let prospects mature. Signing Giambi changed the philosophy of the team that was built and won in the 90′s. If George were alive, no way 2/3 of the outfield today would be Gardner and Swish. More likely to have aging former stars making 20m/yr in all 3 positions.

      Bingo. This, very much.

    65. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:04 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      You don’t get to take a “sabbatical” year like the Sox did last year when the injuries strike. The Sox took their lumps, had a ton of money going out, waited like a cobra to strike, and pounced on Crawford and Gonzalez when they became available. That’s how it’s done.

      Yeah, but they’ve been in on Gonzalez for a while, and I’m sure they could’ve gone another season with the OF alignment they had planned for 2010. They had the opportunity to make clear upgrades, and they took advantage. Nothing wrong with that.

    66. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:04 pm

      Ryan81 wrote:

      That being said, can anyone please point to me any moment in this guy’s soon-to-be-14th season with the Yankees that says he’ll get us the above-average pitcher that can make a positive contribution as a 2nd or 3rd starter in the playoffs at the trade deadline?

      Had Cashman traded for #2 or #3 starters in previous years, it might be a fair question to ask and then look back on history.

      However, in my recollection — and I am just going off the top of my head here — the majority of trade deadline deals that Cashman has made have been for bullpen and bench reinforcements and not for mid-rotation starters. Thus, it’s probably hard to answer your question if there’s no history of such.

    67. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:05 pm

      Ryan81 wrote:

      On top of that, I personally thought the Mariners would be in contention, if not win, the AL West last year

      Really? I thought they had a shot, but a lot needed to go right in order for that to happen.

    68. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:07 pm

      Raf wrote:

      They had the opportunity to make clear upgrades, and they took advantage. Nothing wrong with that.

      Nope. And now this is more or less their team for the next few years. They’re pretty well locked in at 1B, LF (or RF, if they move Crawford to the more defensively-challenging position at Fenway), 3B, 2B and SP1/SP2 (by salary, anyway, not by talent/performance).

      The Red Sox saw an opening and they took it. They saw a horrid crop of 2012 free agents and rightly addressed holes on their roster.

    69. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:11 pm

      Raf wrote:

      I thought [the Mariners] had a shot, but a lot needed to go right in order for that to happen.

      I can actually see Ryan81′s point here. They had two aces and a closer coming off a good year. Their defensive-whiz CF was projected to have a big offensive season based on 2009, their leadoff hitter is still a solid 4-5 win player. In a division as bad as the AL West, I don’t think it was that much of a stretch to think the M’s could win the division with 90 wins. After all, that’s all it took for the Rangers to win it.

      Vegas had the M’s as a 10/1 AL Pennant team. By contrast, they had the Rays at 12/1. That obviously doesn’t mean a lot but it does tell you what “crowdsourcing” thought of the M’s relative to where casinos would set their lines to attract bets. I know, because I bought a $10 ticket on them in February 2010 just to see if I could luck my way into $100.

    70. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:14 pm

      ken wrote:

      It takes YEARS to change the makeup of a team/organization. We are still living with the misguided Boss-directed efforts that started with signing Giambi and continued with many other expensive acquisitions and trading of prospects. It is finally starting to turn around for the better.

      It started and continued long before that. I would say the collusion of the 80′s hurt the Yanks more than anything else.

    71. jrk
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:24 pm

      Why has no one answered the question we all want to know? Those who are unhappy right now, WHAT DO YOU WANT CASHMAN TO DO RIGHT NOW? (Steve? Lisa?) At this instant moment. I just see complaining for inaction with no good solution?

    72. jrk
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:26 pm

      Also, does anything else think we should try out a few “low-risk, high-reward” possibilities? I know some people on this site don’t like that term, but if you can sign relatively low contracts with guys like Bedard, Duchscherer, Sheets, Webb, why not give it a shot? Sign a couple, one might just work out?

    73. Corey Italiano
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:27 pm

      This conversation has gone far too long for me to be able to say something that hasn’t been said.

      What I will say is, I wonder how much it would cost to trade for Edwin Jackson. If Andy doesn’t sign, he could be a pretty good number 3. He’s in his walk year and the Sox need to dump a little bit of money (not that Jackson’s price tag is that exorbitant)…throw in a couple of prospects, could be a match.

    74. December 20th, 2010 | 4:28 pm

      Ryan81 wrote:

      Jesus you guys really are having a heated discussion.

      My fault. Heaven forbid I ever shine a light on Cashman or A-Rod.

    75. Corey Italiano
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:28 pm

      @ Corey Italiano:
      And I’d think, since he’s in his walk year, that he’d be cheaper than Gavin Floyd, whom the Yankees have been rumored to be looking at.

    76. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:30 pm

      jrk wrote:

      if you can sign relatively low contracts with guys like Bedard, Duchscherer, Sheets, Webb, why not give it a shot? Sign a couple, one might just work out?

      Absolutely. No reason not to allocate $6M on that crop of guys and see which (if any) can potentially make it back. It worked once with Jon Leiber and sort of worked with Octavio Dotel…may as well try again. The Yanks lose nothing.

    77. December 20th, 2010 | 4:33 pm

      jrk wrote:

      Why has no one answered the question we all want to know? Those who are unhappy right now, WHAT DO YOU WANT CASHMAN TO DO RIGHT NOW? (Steve? Lisa?) At this instant moment. I just see complaining for inaction with no good solution?

      That’s sort of like asking Bernie Madoff what can he do now to fix the mess he created. Of course, there’s not much that can be done NOW. But, it doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be held accountable for allowing it to happen in the first place.

    78. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:34 pm

      @ Corey Italiano:
      Considering what the White Sox paid to get Edwin, I’d imagine they’d try to recoup their loss. I don’t see a very good fit, personally.

      Also, just curious, but why do you say the White Sox are trying to trim payroll? They just spent around $100M on Adam Dunn and Paul Konerko so it doesn’t seem to me like they’re in the mood to sell right now.

    79. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:35 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      That’s sort of like asking Bernie Madoff what can he do now to fix the mess he created. Of course, there’s no much that can be done NOW. But, it doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be held accountable for allowing it to happen in the first place.

      Hyperbole.

    80. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:35 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Ryan81 wrote:
      Jesus you guys really are having a heated discussion.
      My fault. Heaven forbid I ever shine a light on Cashman or A-Rod.

      Note the caliber of discussion, and compare it to say, ESPN, NYDN or MLB.

      Anyway, I’ve been here long enough to know the issue isn’t “shining a light” on Cashman or A-Rod.

    81. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:36 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Anyway, I’ve been here long enough to know the issue isn’t “shining a light” on Cashman or A-Rod.

      Glad someone said it. I didn’t want to be the first…

    82. Ryan81
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:39 pm

      @ Raf:
      You’re gonna have a pretty solid shot in a weak division with Hernandez and Lee as your 1-2 punch in the rotation. Not to mention a lineup that could be deadly at their career seasons or when they’re not getting into screaming matches in the dugout.

      @ MJ Recanati:
      Cashman however has a very spotty history when it comes to that as well. Look at how many of his trade deadline moves actually helped the Yankees. And when I mean helped, I mean “the Yankees couldn’t have made the playoffs without them.” I would say that list starts with: Abreu, Justice…am i missing anybody? Aaron Boone’s one swing? Maybe Kerry Wood last year? Does El Duque count? Even his bullpen help/bench reinforcements (Berkman, Pudge Rodriguez, Nady, Lidle, Chacon, Loaiza, even back to the days of Weaver and Mondesi) have been some of his most epic failures.

      Cashman’s trades at the deadline look great on paper, and the Yankees farm system is always hyped. Yet when you look back in hindsight, they really are not that impressive. And trades at the deadline, which also include trying to weed out the prospects that you think will be more successful than others, are not as easy and straightforward to pull off as going to a big-time free agent and offering him $50 million more than another team.

    83. jrk
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:46 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      That’s sort of like asking Bernie Madoff what can he do now to fix the mess he created. Of course, there’s not much that can be done NOW. But, it doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be held accountable for allowing it to happen in the first place.

      Are you serious? You are comparing defrauding investors out of billions of dollars and ruining people’s lives to assembling a baseball team? I don’t think Brian Cashman’s son (if he has one) will be committing suicide anytime soon because his father didn’t sign Cliff Lee.

    84. December 20th, 2010 | 4:47 pm

      I’m not going to jump in fully here, because Raf, MJ, and Evan have basically covered everything I want to say, but I will make 2 points:

      1) The Yankees never, ever offered Montero for Soria. It was an unsubstantiated piggyback by Stark on a report by Heyman that guessed Montero might be involved. Ken Davidoff debunked it later and said the offer was never made, according to all of his sources within the organization.

      2) Cashman does need a light pointed at him, and he needs to be held accountable for putting the team in this position. Of course, being that the position is coming off making the playoffs in 12 of his 13 years as the GM, including 4 titles, one as recently as 2009, and an ALCS last season, AND doing it within the budget that his owners are comfortable with (as opposed to the imaginary constraints Steve would prefer that he act within to serve some sort of need he has to do it cheaper), being held accountable will likely mean a nice contract extension after the 2011 season.

    85. Ryan81
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:55 pm

      @ Steve Lombardi:, @ MJ Recanati:, @ jrk:
      Is it hyperbole to compare Cashman to Madoff? Yes. It’s a baseball team, not really life and death.

      How bout comparing it to Cameron totaling his dad’s special collector’s Ferrari in Ferris Bueller’s Day Off. He can’t go out and buy another Ferrari, but it doesn’t mean he will or should get off without punishment.

    86. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 4:55 pm

      Ryan81 wrote:

      Look at how many of his trade deadline moves actually helped the Yankees. And when I mean helped, I mean “the Yankees couldn’t have made the playoffs without them.”

      Fortunately for the Yanks, there have been few, if any, trades where the Yankees absolutely needed to make the trade in order to make the playoffs. The great majority of their trades have been to address holes for the playoff run, not to make the playoffs themselves. Thus, again, it’s hard to answer your question when you’re asking about circumstances that may not be applicable.

      But, ignoring that for a second, Abreu, Wood, Justice and Chacon are excellent examples of productive mid-season trades. El Duque as an international free agent signing.

      Not sure how Weaver was an epic failure in 2002. In 78 innings he pitched to a 110 ERA+. Stellar? No. But epic failure in 2002? No, not at all.

    87. MJ Recanati
      December 20th, 2010 | 5:00 pm

      yagottagotomo1 wrote:

      Cashman does need a light pointed at him, and he needs to be held accountable for putting the team in this position. Of course, being that the position is coming off making the playoffs in 12 of his 13 years as the GM, including 4 titles, one as recently as 2009, and an ALCS last season, AND doing it within the budget that his owners are comfortable with (as opposed to the imaginary constraints Steve would prefer that he act within to serve some sort of need he has to do it cheaper), being held accountable will likely mean a nice contract extension after the 2011 season.

      Yes.

    88. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 5:06 pm

      @ Ryan81:
      Yeah, but the past few years, the M’s have been giving up more runs than they have scored. The 1-2 punch was nice (1-2-3 if Bedard was healthy), but I don’t know if the offense and defense would’ve been enough for them to keep up. Figured they would get into a lot of 1-run games and those can go either way.

    89. Raf
      December 20th, 2010 | 5:12 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Not sure how Weaver was an epic failure in 2002. In 78 innings he pitched to a 110 ERA+. Stellar? No. But epic failure in 2002? No, not at all.

      That 2002 rotation had Mussina, Clemens, Pettitte, Duque and Wells, 5 proven starters… And they didn’t escape the first round.

    90. December 20th, 2010 | 7:11 pm

      Memo to self: Good call going with the Madoff analogy rather than the Susan Smith one I first considered.

    91. Evan3457
      December 20th, 2010 | 7:17 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Memo to self: Good call going with the Madoff analogy rather than the Susan Smith one I first considered.

      Have you tried decaffeinated? Maybe you should. :)

    92. jay
      December 20th, 2010 | 9:55 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:
      Just wonderful. So, it’s going to be “2008″ again in Yankeeland – in 2011. Remember then? That’s when Cashman went with kids like Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation to start the season. And, they were later replaced with Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson. Oh, and, by the way, the Yankees finished in third in 2008 and missed making the post-season for the first time in what seemed like forever.

      Correlation does not equal causation. The 2008 Yankees had trouble scoring runs.

      Steve Lombardi wrote:@ Raf:
      Park Index. New Yankee Stadium was a homer haven in 2009.

      ESPN’s 2008 Yankee Stadium park index: 1.040
      ESPN’s 2009 Yankee Stadium park index: 0.965

      E-mail me on the side if you’d like me to explain how park factors work.

      Agenda-driven, comically bad analysis. I love this site.

    93. December 20th, 2010 | 10:14 pm

      @ jay:
      I think I may have asked you this before, but, in any event, what does that say about you?

    94. jay
      December 20th, 2010 | 10:28 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      @ jay:
      I think I may have asked you this before, but, in any event, what does that say about you?

      What does what say about me? That I find this site entertaining? It says that… I find this site entertaining.

    95. BOHAN
      December 21st, 2010 | 1:33 am

      lisaswan wrote:

      How Cashman can go from saying his offseason priority was, “pitching, pitching, and more pitching” to saying it’s okay to have big gaping holes in the rotation for the first four months of the year is astonishing

      I get what you’re saying here but in reality this offseason there was only two good pitchers on the market (free agent or via trade) and Cashman did everything he could to get hime to come to NY and the other has some mental issues, can’t think of a better way to put it, that might not have been very good in NY. Especially for the amount of talent they wouldve had to give up

    96. BOHAN
      December 21st, 2010 | 1:39 am

      before i respond to this i havent read everything on here so if i repeat something someone else said im sorry
      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Uh, yeah. 20% of his rotation is TBD right now.

      the key words in thi statement is “right now.” Its December, lets go go nuts and say this team is screwed. they can compete with what they have right now and there’s definately going to be a team that falls out of contention by july that they can trade for.

    97. BOHAN
      December 21st, 2010 | 1:44 am

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      @ EHawk:
      Interesting article. Sherman’s logic was lost on me, however. He’s making a prediction that Felix Hernandez will be traded based on a patter of previous AL Cy Young Award winners being traded? That’s sort of silly, if you ask me.Hernandez is due to earn $10M in 2011; in other words, he’s super-cheap right now. Hernandez doesn’t get more expensive until the 2012-2014 seasons when he’ll earn, on average, $19.3M per season for those three seasons. That means the Mariners have all of the 2011 season and all of next offseason to cash in on a controlled asset that happens to be, arguably, the best pitcher in the American League.I don’t see the Mariners trading Hernandez before next offseason at the absolute earliest.

      i completely understand what you’re saying there about the Mariners having all of 2011 and the offseason to cash in but dont you think they’ll be better off trading during the season when they can more for him for a contending team with an incentive to trade for him then in the offseason when it isnt as “necessary?”

    98. BOHAN
      December 21st, 2010 | 1:48 am

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:It may well be that given the current market of available/price, the Yanks’ best move is to wait, tread water with what they have, and hope for a better market at the deadline. Even if it’s not the best move, the best thing for Cashman to say is what he keeps saying. I don’t understand why people have such trouble with the concept that if keep talking about how much you need starting pitching, how much you want starting pitching, how desperate you are for starting pitching, the price goes UP, not down. Now, you may not be able to fool other teams bluffing strong hand, but it can’t hurt to try. As it happens, the Yanks are still a good team, just not the strongest team at the moment. They are very likely to be well within the race after 60 games (mid-June). At that point, they can assess what the have and what they need, assess the market to see what’s available and for what price.So when Cashman says he has until at least July, it’s 1) a strong bluff position, 2) might actually work out if Nova comes through, and 3) the right thing to be saying publicly, whether he really believes it or not.Good heavens, why is Evan the only one that understands this?

      I understand it, just havent been on here lately to chime in.

    99. MJ Recanati
      December 21st, 2010 | 6:36 am

      BOHAN wrote:

      i completely understand what you’re saying there about the Mariners having all of 2011 and the offseason to cash in but dont you think they’ll be better off trading during the season when they can more for him for a contending team with an incentive to trade for him then in the offseason when it isnt as “necessary?”

      Maybe, maybe not. In general, it always helps the selling team to have as many suitors as possible in order to extract the highest price for their asset. While it is certainly possible that an in-season trade could create that scenario, it’s also possible that letting the market develop even longer could create more suitors.

      One could argue that the Royals jumped the gun by trading Greinke this weekend instead of waiting until July or next offseason. I’m not necessarily saying that Hernandez can’t be traded before July but I’d imagine that the Mariners would want to keep him as long as he’s affordable and then offer him up to teams when they can no longer afford him. After all, even if they can’t afford him, an acquiring team would still have three full seasons of control so they’d theoretically be willing to pay to acquire him next year.

    100. Raf
      December 21st, 2010 | 10:28 am

      BOHAN wrote:

      the key words in thi statement is “right now.” Its December, lets go go nuts and say this team is screwed. they can compete with what they have right now and there’s definately going to be a team that falls out of contention by july that they can trade for.

      Yep. They already have 5 starters, and a couple of guys on the farm to step in if needed. When all those options are exhausted, and there’s no one available to trade, THEN you panic.

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