• Cashman Considering Bringing Pavano Back?

    Posted by on January 19th, 2011 · Comments (54)

    Peter Botte shares this news:

    Cashman [at today's press conference for Soriano] admitted he had “several discussions” with agent for Pavano.

    Wow.

    Comments on Cashman Considering Bringing Pavano Back?

    1. clintfsu813
      January 19th, 2011 | 12:27 pm

      (I dont want this to happen) What IF..crazy Carl came back on a decent short term deal and pitched his ASS off. Would that change things between him and the fans? I think it would. The initial signing would cause HUGE uproar but if that happened…I dont think the fans would give a rats ass about his prior term.

    2. January 19th, 2011 | 12:28 pm

      @ clintfsu813:
      Didn’t many say that about Vazquez when he came back? And, once he had a bad start, it was the end for him with the fans…

    3. clintfsu813
      January 19th, 2011 | 12:29 pm

      @ Steve Lombardi:
      Yea..thats why I was throwing out my theory with a future aspect attached.

    4. January 19th, 2011 | 1:32 pm

      I think Cashman has lost his mind.

    5. January 19th, 2011 | 1:56 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      I think Cashman has lost his mind.

      It’s hard for Cashman to think when the magic of the Steinbrenner Family Checkbook fails him…

    6. jrk
      January 19th, 2011 | 2:30 pm

      Not happening. Everyone exhale.

    7. January 19th, 2011 | 3:45 pm

      What? Is Kevin Brown not available?

    8. Corey Italiano
      January 19th, 2011 | 5:16 pm

      I really don’t think the difference between Pavano and Mitre is that great to validify signing him. Especially when you consider the difference in pay.

    9. Raf
      January 19th, 2011 | 5:50 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Didn’t many say that about Vazquez when he came back? And, once he had a bad start, it was the end for him with the fans…

      As much as the fans like to think they played a role in Vazquez’s career in NY, I would wager declining velocity had more to do with his nonperformance

      http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Vazquez.png

    10. Raf
      January 19th, 2011 | 5:51 pm

      Wonder what Mussina has to say? :D

    11. January 19th, 2011 | 6:24 pm

      Sign Raul Mondesi for the extra outfield slot and we’re set.

    12. Evan3457
      January 19th, 2011 | 6:58 pm

      Oh, I wouldn’t worry about this much.

    13. Evan3457
      January 19th, 2011 | 7:02 pm

      Hmmm…at the Soriano press conference, Levine said: “Cash is the best GM in the game.”

      Maybe Steve is right after all.

    14. KPOcala
      January 19th, 2011 | 7:02 pm

      @ Steve Lombardi:
      Steve what did I ask you Yesterday? Or to use Howard Cossell’s line, “How….do…..you…like….that!”

    15. Ryan81
      January 19th, 2011 | 9:04 pm

      This is a disaster. If somebody doesn’t step in here and take some sort of authoritative leadership role, this organization could be a train-wreck in the making. You have a GM with “complete control of baseball operations”, a huge ego, an affinity to position himself in a better light, and a litany of bad transactions that could but just about any other franchise back decades. On the other hand you have a potentially meddling ownership (and other powers-that-be) that is starting to become a little too bottom-line oriented for an organization that is supposedly flush with capital and knows nothing about baseball, public relations, or how to manage an organization without causing internal strife and controversy. Quite frankly, if they weren’t the New York Yankees, I think this organization would be a laughingstock in professional sports.

    16. Corey Italiano
      January 19th, 2011 | 9:40 pm
    17. 77yankees
      January 19th, 2011 | 10:05 pm

      Ryan81 wrote:

      This is a disaster. If somebody doesn’t step in here and take some sort of authoritative leadership role, this organization could be a train-wreck in the making. You have a GM with “complete control of baseball operations”, a huge ego, an affinity to position himself in a better light, and a litany of bad transactions that could but just about any other franchise back decades. On the other hand you have a potentially meddling ownership (and other powers-that-be) that is starting to become a little too bottom-line oriented for an organization that is supposedly flush with capital and knows nothing about baseball, public relations, or how to manage an organization without causing internal strife and controversy. Quite frankly, if they weren’t the New York Yankees, I think this organization would be a laughingstock in professional sports.

      Well said and spot on.

    18. Raf
      January 19th, 2011 | 10:17 pm

      Ryan81 wrote:

      You have a GM with “complete control of baseball operations”, a huge ego, an affinity to position himself in a better light, and a litany of bad transactions that could but just about any other franchise back decades.

      The Yankees aren’t any other franchise, and the GM has a litany of good transactions as well.

      If Cashman was truly incompetent, like many would like to think, the Yankees would not have done as well as they have since 1998.

      We’ve been down this road before, no need to go down it again.

    19. KPOcala
      January 19th, 2011 | 10:43 pm

      @ Ryan81:
      Ryan, do really think that if you closely looked at every franchise that questionable decisions aren’t made. Cashman has a “huge ego”? Really? Theo “The Genius” or “Billy Beane” don’t? All those guys have egos, but I doubt that Cashman’s is so large as to cloud his judgement. Relax, the Yankees will take some bumps, along w/ every other team. The thing is, they have a farm system and money that they’ll use to re-invest. And as a fan you can’t ask for anything better.

    20. Ryan81
      January 19th, 2011 | 11:32 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      @ Ryan81:
      Ryan, do really think that if you closely looked at every franchise that questionable decisions aren’t made. Cashman has a “huge ego”? Really? Theo “The Genius” or “Billy Beane” don’t? All those guys have egos, but I doubt that Cashman’s is so large as to cloud his judgement.

      I agree that guys like Theo and Billy Beane (don’t know why you used quotation marks around his name but OK) have egos, but I think that Cashman’s clearly is starting to cloud his judgement. I think now, he’s starting to be a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian, so if he wins, he can smugly say, “Look how smart I am!”

      Bringing back Javy Vazquez, attempting to bring back Carl Pavano, these moves scream: “I’m a canny, brilliant, Moneyball GM. I don’t need the Steinbrenner checkbook, want to regard the fact that these guys are vilified by our fanbase, and care that they can’t survive the fishbowl of the overbearing NY media; I can evaluate talent better than them anyway. In fact, I’m so good at my job and so much more knowledgeable then they are that I’m going to bring back guys that were ran out of town by our harsh media, impatient ownership, and demanding fans to prove a point that they were the right guys to bring in all along.”

      I mean, correct me if you think I’m wrong, but that’s the sense that I have been getting from this guy for the past 2 off-seasons.

    21. JeremyM
      January 20th, 2011 | 7:57 am

      Everyone is entitled to make mistakes, even the GM of the world’s greatest baseball franchise. But I do have a problem when the GM makes the same mistakes- I mean, trying to bring back Pavano after Vazquez flamed out (yes, velocity had a lot to do with it, but not everything).

    22. JeremyM
      January 20th, 2011 | 7:58 am

      Raf wrote:

      Wonder what Mussina has to say?

      Do you think he’d come back? :)

    23. Scout
      January 20th, 2011 | 8:25 am

      If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result (here, bringing back a pitcher who bombed his first time in pinstripes for another stint), then perhaps Cashman needs to spend some quality time with the nice men in the white coars.

    24. January 20th, 2011 | 8:45 am

      @ Ryan81:
      You really nailed it. Theo has certainly made his share of mistakes, but he doesn’t keep on bringing the same failures back to prove how smart he is. That’s the sense I’m getting from Cashman — like these guys (Pavano, Javy, et al) were just misunderstood or something.

      If Cashman really thought Pavano got a raw deal, then why did he insist that Carl get a second, a third, and a fourth opinion on whether he needed Tommy John surgery *after* Dr. James Andrews said he did?

    25. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 10:16 am

      @ Everyone:
      And for all the whining about potentially bringing back Pavano (before he signed a 2Y/$16.5M deal to stay in Minnesota), think about this:

      Pavano will earn $8.25M per season to be a league-average starter providing between 180-200 innings. Rafael Soriano will earn approximately $11.6M per season to pitch 60 innings.

      What’s more foolish, thinking about bringing back an unpopular player that could actually help the team in a measurable way or spending 40% more on a guy that pitches one inning at a time in a role (relief) that was not a weak spot for the team?

      I hated the Pavano signing in 2005. I don’t care for the person that Carl Pavano is based on the four miserable years he spent here. But there’s at least a logic to looking at a starter for the #4 role instead of spending more for a reliever. If people actually think that Mitre is a better option than Pavano, I think that’s letting personal feelings and bad blood spoil what objectivity would disagree with.

    26. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 10:24 am

      @ lisaswan:
      With all due respect, I think that’s making assumptions based on minimal facts.

      First, Cashman didn’t bring Vazquez back last year to prove some point from 2004. To assume he did is absurd. He got a guy with a track record for being a league-average starter in the AL for a very reasonable price. The Yankees had a need for a #4 starter that could give them 200 innings at an ERA+ of around 95 (or higher). Regardless of what people thought of Vazquez in his previous time in NY, that’s more or less what he did in 2004 (198 IP/92 ERA+); the very definition of a #4 starter. So, based on Vazquez’s four previous seasons of AL experience and the low cost required to re-acquire him last year, the Vazquez move was all about plugging a hole in the rotation. If you want to think it was about Cashman settling some old score or stroking his own ego, you’re entitled to your opinion but it seems like you’re basing it more on something other than hard facts.

      Second, since the Pavano signing didn’t happen, it’s pointless to even post-mortem the rumored interest the Yankees had on a one-year basis.

    27. Raf
      January 20th, 2011 | 11:33 am

      Ryan81 wrote:

      Bringing back Javy Vazquez, attempting to bring back Carl Pavano, these moves scream: “I’m a canny, brilliant, Moneyball GM. I don’t need the Steinbrenner checkbook,

      Vazquez was a salary dump, Pavano would’ve been signed as a FA.

    28. January 20th, 2011 | 12:05 pm

      @ MJ Recanati:
      ” If you want to think it was about Cashman settling some old score or stroking his own ego, you’re entitled to your opinion but it seems like you’re basing it more on something other than hard facts.”

      Well, unless Cashman says “you’re right, I’m doing this to stroke my ego,” I can’t technically prove that this is the case. But most GMs learn from their mistakes. Cashman keeps on making the mistakes over and over. Why would you bring back a player who lied about being injured (Javy)? Or a player who couldn’t stay healthy (Johnson, Pavano)? Or a player despised by his own teammates? (Pavano)? Or players who had a terrible time pitching in New York (Javy, Pavano)? Nobody in the world but Cashman and his acolytes thought any of those acquisitions or attempted reaquistions were good ideas.

      And in general, I have to wonder when does it end with the defenses of Cashman? I swear, he could call up Kevin Brown and ask him to come back, and there would be some Cash defenders saying how smart he was to kick the tires on him!

    29. January 20th, 2011 | 12:09 pm

      @ MJ Recanati:
      One other point:

      “Second, since the Pavano signing didn’t happen, it’s pointless to even post-mortem the rumored interest the Yankees had on a one-year basis.”

      Why? It shows his mindset — and it’s not rumors; Cashman himself admitted that he looked into getting Pavano. MJ, can you honestly say that this was a good idea to bring back the worst free agent signing in history, a guy openly despised by his teammates, back to New York?

      And this is a GM who compares Andy Pettitte to Brett Favre, but calls Pavano “Pav.” What the heck is wrong with that picture?

    30. Raf
      January 20th, 2011 | 12:23 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      Nobody in the world but Cashman and his acolytes thought any of those acquisitions or attempted reaquistions were good ideas.

      I’m pretty sure from a baseball standpoint, those acquisitions, attempted reacquisitions made sense. I’m sure if you go to baseball websites, you’ll find endorsements of the trade.

      The team at one time reacquired Tommy John, Doyle Alexander, Mike Easler, Claudell Washington, Goose Gossage and Luis Polonia, among others.

      Teams reacquiring a player isn’t anything new.

    31. Corey Italiano
      January 20th, 2011 | 12:26 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      Cashman himself admitted that he looked into getting Pavano. MJ, can you honestly say that this was a good idea to bring back the worst free agent signing in history, a guy openly despised by his teammates, back to New York?

      I’ll answer for MJ.

      If you can improve your ball club in some capacity, you at least explore doing so. Pavano is better than Mitre. He is. Signing Pavano to a 1 year deal so that we don’t have to see Mitre out there every 5th day had nothing to do with Cashman trying to prove a point. Trading for Vazquez was an effort to make the Yankees 4th starter a legitimate Cy Young candidate. Had nothing to do with proving a point. These moves (or in Pavano’s case, non-move), to me, look like a GM trying to make his club better.

      I realize it’s the winter and its pretty boring in baseball land, but let’s not write narratives to these stories.

    32. Corey Italiano
      January 20th, 2011 | 12:28 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      And this is a GM who compares Andy Pettitte to Brett Favre, but calls Pavano “Pav.” What the heck is wrong with that picture?

      Who cares what he calls people?

    33. Raf
      January 20th, 2011 | 12:31 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      I swear, he could call up Kevin Brown and ask him to come back, and there would be some Cash defenders saying how smart he was to kick the tires on him!

      There’s nothing wrong with kicking tires. There is nothing wrong with picking a guy off the scrap heap. Sid Fernandez showed up to Yankees training camp in 2001. Steve Howe and Len Barker showed up to Yankees camp in 1991. Dwight Gooden was signed after being suspended from while on suspension from MLB. Jim Palmer showed up to spring training with the Orioles in 1991. Jim Morris, a high school science teacher, signed with the Rays after a tryout.

      If a player has nothing left, they get cut. If they show something, they’ll stick around.

    34. January 20th, 2011 | 12:37 pm

      @ Raf: What’s unique with Cashman is that he’s got a history of going after players still universally despised by the fanbase and his own players. Nobody hated any of the names you listed as much as Yankee players do Pavano.

    35. January 20th, 2011 | 12:38 pm

      @ Corey Italiano: You don’t have a problem with the GM comparing Pettitte to Favre? I sure as heck do.

    36. January 20th, 2011 | 12:39 pm

      @ Raf: Cashman reportedly wanted to pay $10 million to Pavano, and lose a draft pick to boot. Pavano’s a Type A free agent. How is that comparable to giving Dwight Gooden a second chance?

    37. Raf
      January 20th, 2011 | 12:45 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      What’s unique with Cashman is that he’s got a history of going after players still universally despised by the fanbase and his own players. Nobody hated any of the names you listed as much as Yankee players do Pavano.

      So what? I’d rather a GM make decisions based on sound reasoning, than emotion. Who cares what the fans think? Any GM that would build a team based on what he hears on talk radio is an idiot.

      lisaswan wrote:

      You don’t have a problem with the GM comparing Pettitte to Favre? I sure as heck do.

      Brett Favre can’t make up his mind whether or not he’s going to play or retire. Andy Pettitte can’t make up his mind whether he’s going to play or retire. Can’t imagine why anyone would make the comparison. ;)

    38. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 12:48 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      Why would you bring back a player who lied about being injured (Javy)?

      Javier Vazquez isn’t the first to lie about being injured. Funny, when we hate a player (like Vazquez), his lie is made out to be some national calamity. But when we love a player (Jeter, Ripken, etc.), hiding injuries is considered heroic and evidence that the player is “a gamer.” So while I certainly do prefer my players to be honest about their injuries, I don’t see why Vazquez’s decision to try and pitch while hurt is that big a deal and I certainly don’t see any connection between that and some evidence that Cashman is failing because he reacquired a player that engaged in such subterfuge.

      lisaswan wrote:

      Or a player who couldn’t stay healthy (Johnson, Pavano)?

      As I said above, I didn’t agree with the Pavano signing in 2005 for that very reason: Pavano had a very checkered injury history and a four-year deal seemed like a risky gamble. No one, not even the biggest pessimist, could’ve predicted just how badly it would turn out. But there’s a difference between a one year deal and a four year deal, no? If the Yankees had managed to sign Pavano to a one year deal and he immediately reverted to 2005-2008 form the ill effects of the signing wouldn’t have been anywhere close to the same. In other words, you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. As to the point about Randy Johnson, it’s pretty well known that that wasn’t a Cashman move and, more to the point, it was trading one unwanted commodity (Vazquez) for another (Johnson didn’t want to be on a rebuilding club).

      lisaswan wrote:

      Or a player despised by his own teammates? (Pavano)?

      Well, fortunately for Pavano, the only people left on the Yankees from his previous visit here are Jeter, Posada, Rodriguez, Cano, Rivera, Hughes and Chamberlain. Among that group, I’ll assume the only people that actually “hated” Pavano are Jeter and Posada and, frankly, much to their own chagrin, their opinion and voice in the clubhouse counts a lot less these days. Reports from Minnesota are that Pavano got along well with his teammates, for whatever that’s worth. It boils down to performance, not personality.

      lisaswan wrote:

      Or players who had a terrible time pitching in New York (Javy, Pavano)?

      That’s such a load of horse-poop that I won’t even go there. Pavano couldn’t handle the pressure New York yet he pitched lights out against them in Game 3 of the 2009 ALDS?

      lisaswan wrote:

      I have to wonder when does it end with the defenses of Cashman?

      Because you assume that all defenses of Cashman are reflexive ones, you demonstrate your own blindspot. I’ve never said Cashman was infallible or that he hasn’t made his share of mistakes. But if doing his due diligence on the best available free agent starter means he’s doing a bad job then we’re just not going to agree here. There’s justifiable criticism and there’s whining about nonsense because of a subjective, emotional response to the names “Vazquez” and “Pavano”.

      To be clear once again: I hated the Pavano signing in 2005. I consider it one of Cashman’s most obvious and egregious errors. I don’t care that he was courted by other teams as well. But that doesn’t mean that, on a one-year contract, signing Pavano would’ve been a bad move to make or that Pavano would fail in 2011 because he failed in 2005-2008.

    39. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 12:50 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      And this is a GM who compares Andy Pettitte to Brett Favre, but calls Pavano “Pav.” What the heck is wrong with that picture?

      This is absurd. Who cares what Cashman calls Pavano?

    40. Raf
      January 20th, 2011 | 12:54 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      @ Raf: Cashman reportedly wanted to pay $10 million to Pavano, and lose a draft pick to boot. Pavano’s a Type A free agent. How is that comparable to giving Dwight Gooden a second chance?

      As MJ pointed out;

      Pavano will earn $8.25M per season to be a league-average starter providing between 180-200 innings. Rafael Soriano will earn approximately $11.6M per season to pitch 60 innings.

      Makes sense, when compared to signing Soriano, doesn’t it?

      As for Gooden vs Pavano, the point was to explore all avenues when putting together a team. Gooden wasn’t signed as some sort of feel good second chance story, he was signed because despite his drug, legal and physical problems, he still had a ML fastball.

    41. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 12:55 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      What’s unique with Cashman is that he’s got a history of going after players still universally despised by the fanbase and his own players. Nobody hated any of the names you listed as much as Yankee players do Pavano.

      The day the GM runs the team according to the whims and personal likes/dislikes of the fans is the day the GM has failed his organization and should be fired.

      The great majority of fans are idiots and I certainly wouldn’t want those idiots calling the shots for my favorite team. I don’t have to like all 25 members of the Yanks — in fact, I unequivocally and openly hate at least one — but I can get past that hatred for the good of the team.

    42. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 12:57 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      You don’t have a problem with the GM comparing Pettitte to Favre? I sure as heck do.

      You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m sure Andy Pettitte thanks you for your support but, in the big picture, this just isn’t a big deal. I trust that Pettitte and Cashman have built up enough of a rapport over the years that this comment was more offensive to you than it was to Pettitte himself.

    43. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 1:00 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      Cashman reportedly wanted to pay $10 million to Pavano, and lose a draft pick to boot. Pavano’s a Type A free agent.

      Given the fact that both players were Type A free agents, I’d say the following statement is true:

      $10M for Pavano and 180 league-average innings > $11.6M for Soriano and 60 above-average innings.

    44. Corey Italiano
      January 20th, 2011 | 1:21 pm

      lisaswan wrote:

      You don’t have a problem with the GM comparing Pettitte to Favre? I sure as heck do.

      Nope not at all. In fact, I agree with him. Enough is enough.

    45. Ryan81
      January 20th, 2011 | 1:27 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      $10M for Pavano and 180 league-average innings > $11.6M for Soriano and 60 above-average innings.

      This would be true, but even on a one year deal, do you seriously believe that Pavano will give you 180 league-average innings? Do you believe he will even give you 180 innings at all? I agree that emotion sometimes clouds judgement in decision making, but to completely poo-poo it aside and look at this like some big Strat-O-Matic game is idiotic because at the end of the day, there are actual human beings with emotions (gasp!), feelings, and free-will that play the game. It is clear that Pavano’s head and heart will not fully embrace playing in New York (which we all know unless you only watched the ’05-08 Yankees on an Excel spreadsheet), and Cash should just swallow his pride, admit defeat, and move on.

      And quite frankly, despite his past 2 seasons in Minnesota, 1 season in Florida, and 1 pretty good outing in the ’03 World Series, is there really any statistical evidence that this guy is a lock for 180 league-average innings anywhere? I mean for a Major League veteran of 12 seasons, 3 good seasons to hang you hat on is nothing to write home about. I for one would rather see Nova and Joba as our 4 and 5 and hope they develop than bringing in a 12 year vet with 3 good seasons.

    46. January 20th, 2011 | 1:36 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      lisaswan wrote:
      Cashman reportedly wanted to pay $10 million to Pavano, and lose a draft pick to boot. Pavano’s a Type A free agent.
      Given the fact that both players were Type A free agents, I’d say the following statement is true:
      $10M for Pavano and 180 league-average innings > $11.6M for Soriano and 60 above-average innings.

      http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/27826830010486784

      Isn’t even the first-round pick point moot? Olney reports that the Yankees would have signed Pavano only IF they were able to keep their first-round draft pick, so the signing would have been for that $10 million AND the Yankees would have kept their first-round pick.

      Either way… gotta ask, is it even possible for a deal like that to occur? Maybe I’m not clearly picturing this…

    47. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 2:07 pm

      Ryan81 wrote:

      This would be true, but even on a one year deal, do you seriously believe that Pavano will give you 180 league-average innings? Do you believe he will even give you 180 innings at all?

      He pitched 199.1 relatively poor innings in 2009 and 221 very good innings last year so, yeah, I do think that Pavano could pitch 200 average innings in 2011.

      Ryan81 wrote:

      It is clear that Pavano’s head and heart will not fully embrace playing in New York (which we all know…)

      We merely assume that. We assume it based on the fact that he had some ridiculous buttocks injury and based on the fact that he crashed his car into a garbage truck while hanging out with his Z-list celeb girlfriend. Beyond that, he also had arm surgery which has nothing to do with emotion or heart and everything to do with physical injury.

      Now, again, I didn’t like Pavano when he was here. But I can’t absolutely presume that he lacks the heart to pitch in New York simply because he didn’t succeed in New York from 2005-2008. If you can state that with absolute certainty then you’re probably in the wrong line of work.

      Ryan81 wrote:

      And quite frankly, despite his past 2 seasons in Minnesota, 1 season in Florida, and 1 pretty good outing in the ’03 World Series, is there really any statistical evidence that this guy is a lock for 180 league-average innings anywhere?

      His career ERA+ is 98 and 1477.1 of his 1503.2 career innings are as a starter. When 98% of someone’s innings are in the starting rotation and their career ERA+ is 98, that’s the very definition of league average starter.

    48. KPOcala
      January 20th, 2011 | 2:12 pm

      @ Ryan81:
      Ryan, the quotation marks were meant for “The Genius” only, don’t know what I was thinking w/ Beane ;) Anyway, we’re entering the realm of pyshoanalysis here, therefore we’re walking on thin ice. It’s possible that Cashman is building his resume for another GM post w/ more autonomy.

      As for the Pavano contract that wasn’t I believe that Cashman was doing his job, due diligence. Isn’t that every GM’s job? Cashman rolls the dice like every other GM. The thing is, when he rolls a 7 everyone says “of course with all that money”, when he rolls snakes eyes he becomes the village idiot. Compare that with Theo who gets a pass for overpaying for Dice-K or J.D. Drew to name but a couple of terrible deals. What would the editorial tone be if Cashman had made those deals? In Boston “The Genius” got nothing but praise at the time, now, few say a word. I’m not a Cashman apologist but I’ve followed the game for 4 decades now, and over time, in all sports, smart people become dumb, and vice-versa. I think that blind luck is involved much more than people understand.

    49. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 2:21 pm

      Brent wrote:

      Olney reports that the Yankees would have signed Pavano only IF they were able to keep their first-round draft pick, so the signing would have been for that $10 million AND the Yankees would have kept their first-round pick.Either way… gotta ask, is it even possible for a deal like that to occur? Maybe I’m not clearly picturing this

      I can’t read the Tweet (firewalled at work) but I’m not understanding Buster’s point. Pavano was a Type A free agent so if the Yankees had signed him instead of Soriano, our 31st pick in the 1st round still would’ve been lost as compensation to the team losing their free agent (in this case Minnesota instead of Tampa).

      The only way around this is a sign-and-trade scenario where the player signs with a team whose first round pick is protected (must be a team that finished in the bottom half) and then is traded to the Yankees. That way, the team that signed Pavano would not forfeit their draft pick (protected) and the Yankees could then trade a player (or cash) for Pavano. This method would require the player’s approval, however, and is fairly uncommon in baseball.

    50. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 2:25 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      over time, in all sports, smart people become dumb, and vice-versa.

      Absolutely. Joe Torre went from genius to drooling idiot in the span of two poor playoff runs (2003 WS; 2004 ALCS).

      I’ll be the first to admit that I wanted Torre gone and that I didn’t get too emotional when he left. But I’ll also be the first to admit that the mistakes he made were only highlighted by the fact that the bar was set so high that anything less than previous achievements were put under the microscope. In truth, Torre was neither a genius nor a complete buffoon.

    51. Raf
      January 20th, 2011 | 2:34 pm

      Buster Olney wrote:

      To be clear: A Pavano-Yankees reunion would have only happened on a sign-and-trade that would’ve saved the NYY their No. 1 pick.

      I think there are/were too many moving parts for that to realistically happen.

    52. Raf
      January 20th, 2011 | 2:36 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      In truth, Torre was neither a genius nor a complete buffoon.

      He managed the 2003 WS and the 2004 ALCS the way he has always managed. Come to think of it, I’d say most MLB managers would’ve managed the game the same way.

    53. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 3:08 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Buster Olney wrote:To be clear: A Pavano-Yankees reunion would have only happened on a sign-and-trade that would’ve saved the NYY their No. 1 pick. I think there are/were too many moving parts for that to realistically happen.

      Agreed, which is why we don’t see these types of trades too often.

    54. MJ Recanati
      January 20th, 2011 | 3:10 pm

      Raf wrote:

      He managed the 2003 WS and the 2004 ALCS the way he has always managed.

      I suppose that’s true. I can certainly find fault with his decision-making during the 2003 WS. I guess the 2004 ALCS was less about Torre’s shortcomings and more about Rivera/Gordon failing to do their jobs and the offense picking the wrong time to take four games off…

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