• Ex-Yankee Clippard Keeps Rolling Along

    Posted by on June 23rd, 2011 · Comments (25)

    Via John Austin -

    Tyler Clippard pitched a perfect 8th inning for his MLB-best 20th hold, 4 more than the #2 total. Clippard has a 1.90 ERA and 0.89 WHIP, and his 42.2 relief innings rank 3rd in the majors. He began the day 3rd in Wins Above Replacement for relievers, with 1.5 WAR (tied with closers Mariano Rivera and Francisco Cordero).

    Yup, Cashman got taken to the cleaners on this one.

    Comments on Ex-Yankee Clippard Keeps Rolling Along

    1. festus
      June 23rd, 2011 | 7:18 am

      You get full credit for this one, Steve, I had no idea what you were liking about Clippard when he got traded, and still find him a little mystifying (dig his specs, though). Not sure if he’d’ve come out the same in the AL East, and I also think Albaladejo got mishandled by the Yankees in the majors, but I got no case on the results. Also, have you taken a look at Melancon’s stats lately? Good thing Cashman didn’t include Gardner in the Granderson deal, or I’d be worried about your mental health.

    2. clintfsu813
      June 23rd, 2011 | 9:29 am

      The guy can pitch well in the NL East on a team with no pressure to win. Cool. Next.

    3. June 23rd, 2011 | 9:57 am

      clintfsu813 wrote:

      The guy can pitch well in the NL East on a team with no pressure to win. Cool. Next.

      So, I guess that Yankees should pass on Anibal Sánchez too, using that logic, if he was offered to the team in a trade.

    4. clintfsu813
      June 23rd, 2011 | 10:11 am

      Isn’t Sanchez a SP? And yes, I always have reservations about guys that come from teams in the NL. They just dont have a good track record with us.

    5. Raf
      June 23rd, 2011 | 10:24 am

      festus wrote:

      You get full credit for this one, Steve, I had no idea what you were liking about Clippard when he got traded, and still find him a little mystifying (dig his specs, though).

      Yep.

      Personally, I don’t think Albie was mishandled.

    6. June 23rd, 2011 | 10:25 am

      clintfsu813 wrote:

      Isn’t Sanchez a SP? And yes, I always have reservations about guys that come from teams in the NL. They just dont have a good track record with us.

      Not us. Cashman.
      When Pedro went from the NL East Expos to the Red Sox, he was fine.

    7. Raf
      June 23rd, 2011 | 10:26 am

      I knew he had talent, it was just a question if he was going to put it together. At any rate, given the progression of other prospects in the system, Clippard was made expendable. Just so happens he got away. Given the Yanks have Robertson, had Chamberlain, and wound up signing Soriano, it’s pretty safe to say that setup men come and go, and RHP are a dime a dozen.

    8. Raf
      June 23rd, 2011 | 10:32 am

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      When Pedro went from the NL East Expos to the Red Sox, he was fine.

      When Terry Mulholland went from the NL East Phillies to the Yankees, he wasn’t. Xavier Hernandez came from the NL West Astros and didn’t do too well. David Cone came over and was fine with the Jays. Sid Fernandez wasn’t with the O’s. Josh Beckett has been uneven with the Red Sox. Same with AJ Burnett with the Jays.

      There have been pitchers who’ve succeeded and failed on either side, I don’t think it matters pitching in the NL vs the AL.

      Clippard had an opportunity and made the most of it. Maybe the trade was a wakeup call, maybe the Nats organization saw that he made a better reliever than a starter. Whatever the case may be, Clippard seized the opportunity. Good for him.

    9. LMJ229
      June 23rd, 2011 | 12:54 pm

      Cashman has not done well in trades involving pitchers. If you look at all the pitchers he traded away vs. the ones he received he is definitely on the short end. Clippard, Melancon, Kennedy, and Karstens are all having great years. Clippard for Albaladejo was by far his worst.

      Cashman was praised by most for stockpiling good young arms – remember he picked up Sheffield’s option just so he could trade him for some young pitching. But we never get to see the young guys pitch (for the Yankees, that is) because they are always traded away. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if we never see the “Killer Bs” pitch for the Yanks.

      We really need to develop some of our own pitching within the organization and stop relying so heavily on the free agent market. Otherwise, we are left holding the bag when free agent pitchers like Cliff Lee reject the truck-fulls of money we throw at them.

    10. Raf
      June 23rd, 2011 | 1:32 pm

      I bet Cashman’s regretting letting Sergio Mitre and LaTroy Hawkins go too ;)

      LMJ229 wrote:

      We really need to develop some of our own pitching within the organization and stop relying so heavily on the free agent market. Otherwise, we are left holding the bag when free agent pitchers like Cliff Lee reject the truck-fulls of money we throw at them.

      Nah, we don’t. The Yankees have always relied heavily on the FA market when it comes to pitching. That will never change. Nor should it. Cliff Lee may have rejected the money, but the Yankees’ SP have performed well thus far, at least until the injuries have started to set in. The Yankees as constructed will hit their way to the playoffs. That has been the MO since 2004.

      Personally, I don’t think he’s on the short end when it comes to pitchers he traded away. While Clippard, Melancon, Kennedy, and Karstens are all doing well, there are a bunch of guys who’ve washed out, like Jay Tessmer, Ben Ford and a host of others. In the case of Karstens, I seriously doubt that he’d be a full time starter with the Yanks in 09 & 10. He was in the rotation in 2007, but he broke his leg. Or was that Rasner? Both were hurt; one suffered a broken leg, the other suffered a broken finger.

    11. clintfsu813
      June 23rd, 2011 | 3:40 pm

      We cant keep looking at guys that have no clear role with NYY, and then go on to succeed on other teams as failures with NYY management. It’s possible that the second team just flat out may have needed said player MORE than the Yanks. Period. This may not be the case everytime, but I just think its stupid to harp on guys like Kennedy, Melancon, Karstens, et al. It’s possible these guys had NO PLACE in New York. Role wise, attitude wise, character wise or a combination of all 3. Not to mention said player may have brought back an even better player, IE Kennedy/Granderson.

    12. Evan3457
      June 23rd, 2011 | 4:30 pm

      Again, Melancon, Kennedy and Karstens are victims of the inefficiency the Yanks take on themselves because they must win it all, every year.

      They don’t allow young players to get over their jitters, and if they don’t succeed nearly immediately, at least part of the time, they don’t get a long enough period to work things out.

      Nova almost fell victim to it 2 or 3 starts again, and before that, back in April. If he has 3 bad starts in a row at any point this season, the drumbeat will start again. Whelan…bye bye…Marquez…DL. Now, these two guys may not be any good, but it’s not as if the Yanks will take the time to figure it out.

      Karstens was not anything like the pitcher he has developed into with the Nationals when he was with the Yanks. The Yanks would never have allowed it. Same thing for Kennedy. Same thing for Melancon.

      At least they got Granderson for Kennedy, Coke and Jackson.

    13. Raf
      June 23rd, 2011 | 5:25 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Again, Melancon, Kennedy and Karstens are victims of the inefficiency the Yanks take on themselves because they must win it all, every year.

      Even so, Clippard and Kartsens profiled to be back of the rotation starters. Dime a dozen. Kennedy didn’t fit into the Yankees’ plans, for whatever reason. It would’ve served no purpose for him to start a 3rd year in AAA as the 6-7 option; CC-AJ-Pettitte-Hughes @ the ML level, Nova, Aceves, etc stashed away in the minors

    14. Evan3457
      June 23rd, 2011 | 6:24 pm

      Meant Clippard, not Karstens.

    15. LMJ229
      June 23rd, 2011 | 10:56 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Again, Melancon, Kennedy and Karstens are victims of the inefficiency the Yanks take on themselves because they must win it all, every year.

      This is the best explanation I have heard thus far on this topic. I guess if this is the Yankee’s MO then I’ll just have to accept it.

      It’s just frustrating that we have to rely so heavily on the free agent market for the most important aspect of any ballclub. Look what happened to us this year when Cliff Lee rejected us. Granted, Cashman deserves his props for picking up Colon and Garcia. But seriously, did anyone expect them to pitch as well as they have? You have to admit, we got lucky.

      So let’s forget the pitchers that Cashman has traded away. Who are the pitchers that Cashman has traded for that have had a positive impact on our team? And another question – do you think any of the “Killer Bs” will ever see any extended time as a Yankee or will they be traded away like all the others?

    16. LMJ229
      June 23rd, 2011 | 10:58 pm

      Raf wrote:

      I bet Cashman’s regretting letting Sergio Mitre and LaTroy Hawkins go too

      Well he is the one who signed them in the first place! And let’s not forget Kei Igawa. :)

    17. Greg H.
      June 24th, 2011 | 10:48 am

      clintfsu813 wrote:

      We cant keep looking at guys that have no clear role with NYY, and then go on to succeed on other teams as failures with NYY management.

      This.

      Karstens – a great example of a young pitcher who was given a pretty good chance in pinstripes. He definitely did not show much promise as a SP with the Yanks. So a weak NL team with no winning mandate (in fact something like 17 straight losing seasons) takes two or three seasons to watch him “develop” (ie., get throttled and lose games) until he’s now fairly decent. This will never, ever happen on the Yanks. A pitcher’s chance on the Yanks will more likely come down to two games than two years.

      Clippard – showed promise at first, got his innings, then showed a lack of consistency and indicated that he did not have the composure to get it back together in NY. Traded in a dump/swap for a similar player on the Nats in hope that the change in scenery helps. Helped Clippard, not Allby. Oh well, good for Tyler.

      Kennedy – given just about every chance in NY, projected as not having the mental makeup to handle the NY press, made some of the dumbest comments I’ve heard coming from a rookie, too much pressure; he was ineffective. His worth to the Yankees – next to nothing.

      Who do we want back that would help the team right now, Phil Coke? Mark Melancon? Really? Assuming Colon and Hughes return, our pitching is not a huge problem. Right now we’re 4th in the league in ERA and Avg Against, and 1/2 game out of first place. I don’t think Clippard, Karstens, Melancon, Coke, or IPK makes us better than we are. I’ll take Phil Hughes with all his mystery over any of them.

    18. LMJ229
      June 25th, 2011 | 9:27 pm

      Greg H. wrote:

      Karstens – a great example of a young pitcher who was given a pretty good chance in pinstripes.

      Really?! You consider 15 games (nine starts) a “pretty good chance”?

    19. LMJ229
      June 25th, 2011 | 9:30 pm

      Greg H. wrote:

      Kennedy – given just about every chance in NY

      Again, you consider 14 games (12 starts) over a three year period a good chance?

    20. LMJ229
      June 25th, 2011 | 9:31 pm

      Clippard for Albaledejo made no sense at the time the trade was made and makes even less sense now.

    21. Raf
      June 26th, 2011 | 10:42 am

      @ LMJ229:
      Karstens wasn’t much of anything special, another guy who profiled to be a back of the rotation starter. His numbers in the majors weren’t particularly sustainable as he doesn’t strike anyone out, yet allows over a hit per inning. Kennedy had talent, but for whatever reason was buried in the organization.

      I do agree with the general sentiment that they weren’t really given a “chance” but at the same time, better options existed at the ML level, and they were passed in their development by others in the minors.

    22. Greg H.
      June 26th, 2011 | 10:47 am

      LMJ229 wrote:

      Really?! You consider 15 games (nine starts) a “pretty good chance”?
      Again, you consider 14 games (12 starts) over a three year period a good chance?

      Yep, on the NY Yankees I do.

      I also realize that this is not that realistic on other teams, but as clintfsu813 points out, and many have noted, the Yanks business model does not allow for the standard 2-3 year building period for a pitcher, during which time they’re learning their craft and losing ball games. Won’t happen.

      So, like it or not, 10 or 12 starts is in fact a pretty good chance on the Yanks.

    23. clintfsu813
      June 26th, 2011 | 12:37 pm

      Exactly. We may not like it but its the Yanks MO. Hopefully they give Nova, Noesi, et al more chances.

    24. Raf
      June 29th, 2011 | 10:26 pm

      Raf wrote:

      I bet Cashman’s regretting letting Sergio Mitre and LaTroy Hawkins go too

      Dagnabbit!

      Welcome back, Sergio… *facepalm*

    25. McMillan
      November 12th, 2013 | 11:23 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Nah, we don’t. The Yankees have always relied heavily on the FA market when it comes to pitching. That will never change. Nor should it.

      Nah, relying heavily on the FA market has continued to pay tremendous dividends through Nov., 2013, has it not? What do you suppose the New York Yankees’ posting fee for a no. 2 starter from Japan will be this year? $75 million? Ubaldo Jimenez is an attractive possibility too.

      Raf wrote:

      The Yankees as constructed will hit their way to the playoffs. That has been the MO since 2004.

      And that’s why they’ve won only one pennant since 2004 with eight playoff appearances.

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