Was September 17, 2010 A-Rod’s Last Super-Clutch Yankees Moment?

Comments on Was September 17, 2010 A-Rod’s Last Super-Clutch Yankees Moment?

1. bags
   July 11th, 2011 | 3:56 pm
   

   A different way to comment on this list would go something like this:

   There have only been ten “super clutch” Yankee performances in the last 2 and a half seasons. DJ and Arod are the only players on the team to have multiple super clutch games. And Arod has twice as many as Jeter with 4, to Jeter’s 2.

   In fact, Arod has been responsible for one third of the last 30 super clutch performances. Nobody else in that timeframe has more than three.

   Wow. We’re going to really miss Arod for the next 4-6 weeks. He’s the clutchiest player we’ve had in years.

2. Steve Lombardi
   July 11th, 2011 | 4:21 pm
   

   @ bags:

   You could take it a step further, and say, since 2004, A-Rod has Jeter beat 11-3 on this list since 2004.

   But, the past is the past. And, the fact of the matter is that A-Rod has yet to produce such a game/effort like this since last September. And, at this rate, it may not be until this September, if that, where he produces another one.

   And, that’s the point here.

3. bags
   July 11th, 2011 | 6:27 pm
   

   that’s fine but it isn’t an especially revealing point.

   you aren’t taking into account the rarity of this type of performance. they only come along an average of 4 times per year for an entire team.

   and on an individual level, even for an amazing player like arod, they come along on average of 1.4 times per year. so the fact that he hasn’t had one this year isn’t shocking. or particularly revealing.

   he had only one each in the 2004, 2005, 2008, and 2009 seasons.

   so the only really new bit of news contained in your point is that he’s hurt till september. everything else is pretty much in alignment with historical trends.

   it is fine for you to be annoyed that he’s hurt. but these stats don’t really help you make that point.

4. Steve Lombardi
   July 11th, 2011 | 8:00 pm
   

   I would agree that the very best players usually only have one or two games like this a season.

   But, A-Rod has not had one in the last three months, won’t have one in the next month, and maybe may never have another one until…2012, if that?

   Bags, honestly, you think A-Rod is just as good as he ever was?

5. bags
   July 11th, 2011 | 8:25 pm
   

   ha. no. he’s getting worse. because players on the other side of 27 or 30 or whatever always get worse, not better. it is human physiology.

   the reason i seem to be picking a fight over this is because i think you use data in the wrong way. you don’t use it for enlightenment. you use it to support the biases you already have.

   Arod is getting older and therefore worse. But the data you’ve chosen to make that case mostly makes the argument that he’s an incredibly awesome player. Waaaaay better than the players we tend to venerate (bernie, jeter, tino, o’neill, and good god even brosius).

   You look at data and see what you want to see. Not what it really tells you to see. Which is fine and human. But it isn’t fair for you to fight back and suggest that the data supports an argument it really doesn’t.

   okay. sorry. i’ll go back to telling the kids to get off my lawn.

6. Steve Lombardi
   July 11th, 2011 | 10:26 pm
   

   When I see A-Rod, I see a guy whose OPS+ used to be in the 130′s. Then, he started juicing, and his OPS+ was more in the 160-170 range. But, in the last 3 years, it’s back to the 130′s – and he’s just 35 this season…it’s not like he’s close to 40.

   Is he better than average? Sure, when he manages to stay on the field.

   But, he’s not great anymore. And, I wonder if he has any great moments left? Or, at the least, the ability to have a few great moments per season.

   That’s my point here. Dat’s it.

7. throwstrikes
   July 11th, 2011 | 10:51 pm
   

   “So, why point out A-Rod’s date here?”

   Because if you think there’s a scab to pick with A-Rod you enjoy doing it?

8. LMJ229
   July 11th, 2011 | 11:07 pm
   

   So, according to your parameters, there have only been 2 “super clutch” performances since then? I’m sorry but this is so ridiculous its not even worth debating.

9. LMJ229
   July 11th, 2011 | 11:36 pm
   

   OK I’m breaking my own rule … I have to agree with bags, the data you presented merely demonstrates the fact that A-Rod has been our most “super clutch” performer over the past 5 years.

   If you want to make the point that A-Rod is not the player he once was, fine, I’m sure we can all buy that. Just look at his stats in 2008, 2009, 2010 and this year, combined with the fact that he has spent time on the DL in each of those years. That’s all you need to point out.

10. bags
    July 12th, 2011 | 10:14 am
    

    steve, i’m gonna shut up on my topic after this. promise.

    just try to accept what I am saying. you don’t even have to acknowledge it. just see if it rings true for you at all.

    the very fact that you closed out this line of logic by citing Arod’s OPS+ instead of the whole “super clutch” thing supports my argument that you are using data to support your pre-existing biases.

    it might be cool if you looked at data sometimes — and I like it when you do that — and let it tell you what it tells you. instead of what you want it to tell you.

    i’m just sayin’.

11. Steve Lombardi
    July 12th, 2011 | 12:03 pm
    

    If you knew how many theories I have trashed – before sharing – because the numbers don’t support them, you would be surprised. It happens a lot.

12. bags
    July 12th, 2011 | 12:39 pm
    

    okay. cool. i get it. thanks.

Leave a reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.