• Halladay Vs. Hudson Since 1999

    Posted by on March 5th, 2012 · Comments (4)

    The numbers are very close:

    Player W From To Age G GS W-L% IP BB SO ERA ERA+ HR BF
    Roy Halladay 187 1999 2011 22-34 376 350 .670 2517.0 518 1921 3.24 138 204 10306
    Tim Hudson 181 1999 2011 23-35 378 377 .651 2503.1 762 1699 3.40 127 198 10408
    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
    Generated 3/5/2012.

    Why don’t people talk as much about Hudson as they do Halladay?

    Comments on Halladay Vs. Hudson Since 1999

    1. lardin
      March 5th, 2012 | 12:30 pm

      Except that Doc has a a higher winning percentage, 244 less walks, 222 more strike outs and a lower ERA, yeah he gave up 6 more home runs. Doc, pitched almost his entire career in the AL East facing the Yankees and the Red Sox while Hudson pitched in Oakland and then in the National league.

      Doc performed better, against better competition.

    2. March 5th, 2012 | 3:17 pm

      @ lardin:

      Bottom line, between 1999 and 2011, there’s just a difference of 14 IP between them and a difference of 11 points in ERA+

      That means they worked the same amount and had near the same relative park and league adjusted results.

      And, while Halladay worked in the AL East, it also means that he got to feast on the O’s and Rays (when they sucked). And, Hudson may pitched in the NL, but that also means that he pitched without having the benefit of having a DH to sock in runs to support him and he had to run the bases at times and expend that engery during a game whereas Halladay was sitting on the bench or in the clubhouse recharging his battery between innings.

    3. Evan3457
      March 6th, 2012 | 4:52 am

      1) Because Halladay has 12 more bWAR (20% more) in that time period, and
      2) Halladay didn’t become HALLADAY until after he spent his first 4 seasons wandering in the wilderness, whereas Hudson was a success pretty much from the start of his career. From 2002-2011:

      Halladay: 170-75, .694, 2.97 ERA, 7 K/9, 1.5 BB/9, 4.57 K/BB, 0.7 HR/9,ERA+ 149, 59.3 WAR (6 WAR per season), 8 All-Star games, 7 times in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting, 5 times in the top 3, 2 Cy Young Awards.

      Hudson: 132-80, .623, 3.34 ERA, 5.7 K/9, 2.6 BB/9, 2.22 K/BB, 0.7 HR/9, ERA+ 127, 38.3 WAR (4 WAR per season), 2 All-Star games, 2 times in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting, never in the top 3, 0 Cy Young Awards.

      Their overall career totals are close, but ever since things clicked for Halladay, while Hudson has been a very good pitcher in the last ten years, Halladay’s put of a Hall of Fame career in the last ten years.

      They’re very good statistical comps for one another at the moment, but how they got to their current “equal” status says a lot more than that current status.

      And even if they don’t analyze it as closely as some people do, most people intuitively understand that while Hudson’s been very good when healthy, Halladay has been great. It’s the difference between Juan Marichal and Jim Perry.

      That’s probably why.

    4. Shazbot
      March 7th, 2012 | 3:03 pm

      @ Steve L.:
      Firstly, 11 points of ERA+ is a significant degree of quality.

      Also, 13 more innings is 39 more outs. Hudson has faced 102 more batters, but Halladay has recorded 39 more outs. That’s 141 additional times on base.

      If it was much harder to pitch in the NL because of having to bat, well, Doc’s in the NL now, and he’s certainly doesn’t seem to be having the slightest issue with it, with the last couple years being some of the best in his career. I’m also certain that Doc just lazed around leading the league in CG all those times, and four times in IP, once in the NL.

      That’s also not mentioning that Hudson was in the AL for several years.

      I’ll admit Doc has feasted on the crappy O’s, but he has made 77 starts against the Red Sox and Yankees.. and it isn’t like Hudson hasn’t faced the Mets and the Mariners. It’s also forgetting that Hudson’s been on some fantastic A’s teams that won a ton of games and scored a ton of runs, and the Braves after that have been far from bad. Doc’s been on a great team for two years and a slightly above .500 team for 12. Don’t complain about the DH socking in runs for you when that also means facing David Ortiz four times a game, and you’re on a team that’s .440 without you.

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