• Confirmation On Big Stein’s Death

    Posted by on April 8th, 2012 · Comments (28)

    If you were not sure that George Steinbrenner was dead, you now have your proof.

    The silence following the Yankees opening the 2012 season with three straight losses (to the Rays) in the adopted hometown of “The Boss” is evidence that Big Stein has truly moved on to another place.

    Comments on Confirmation On Big Stein’s Death

    1. #15
      April 8th, 2012 | 8:24 pm

      Tampa looked more ready to go out of the gate. Hat tip to the Rays staff for their defensive alignments. Swung one, maybe two, possibly all three games (Yankees still would have had to get e few hits in game 3). Too many hard hit balls were right at Ray’s defenders.

    2. Jim TreshFan
      April 8th, 2012 | 8:40 pm

      Heard the comment that the last time both New York and Boston started a season 0-3 was in 1966. Not a good year as I recall.

    3. ken
      April 8th, 2012 | 10:18 pm

      So Hughes has no put away pitch and the offense can’t produce the timely RBI hit. What’s changed from last year?

    4. LMJ229
      April 8th, 2012 | 10:32 pm

      It’s just kind of incomprehensible that a team with a $200 million payroll can’t beat a team with a $60 million payroll. We have alot of guys who are being paid alot of money that just aren’t getting the job done.

      As fans we have a right to be frustrated since our patronage is what supports the team. Take a look at our ticket prices vs. the Rays, our parking costs, our concessions, etc. We are certainly not getting our money’s worth.

    5. EHawk
      April 8th, 2012 | 11:17 pm

      I was at the games in Tampa this weekend. Its pretty funny how Rays fans react about winning in April. I had to remind many of them the last few days that its only April. Last season the Rays started 1-8 and made the playoffs so the Yanks losing the first 3 while unfortunate is not the end of the world. I looked at this series this way. Game 1 was a game the Yanks should of won but they blew it…game 2 the Price vs Kuroda match up favored the Rays. Game 3 was a toss up. Well if Mariano had not blown the game on Friday (He had converted 27 straight saves against the Rays and 60 out of 61 in his career) it wouldn’t of been as bad as it was. Its not like the Rays really beat the heck out of the Yanks…all the games were close but Yanks pitching didn’t perform. Also lets face it….its possible the Yanks #2 and #3 starters by seasons end(Pettitte and Pineda) aren’t even on the team yet. Rays have to go play the Tigers in Detroit which will be tough so hopefully the Yanks can win against the O’s and get things going.

    6. April 9th, 2012 | 6:38 am

      ken wrote:

      So Hughes has no put away pitch and the offense can’t produce the timely RBI hit. What’s changed from last year?

      Re: Hughes, I was thinking along those lines. This is the new and improved, committed – for a change – and in-shape Phil Hughes! The pitcher who won the 2012 Spring Training Cy Young Award! And, yet, what did we get? Against a team known for hacking and not walking, a team that used to get no-hit at times because they hack so much, he went less than 5 IP and threw 100 pitches.

      We’ve seen this before from Hughes – throwing too many pitches, because he cannot finish off batters, and therefore being, at best, a five and fly guy.

      It’s amazing to watch and compare him against a guy like Hellickson. Hughes doesn’t look like a kid any more. He looks like a guy who has been around for a while – which he has. Hellickson looks like he should be in my daughter’s elementary school class. And, yet, here’s Hughes on the bench rubbing his big Michael Kay like head in the fifth inning, out of the game, hitting 99 pitches, and, there’s Hellickson at 97 pitches, very late, IIRC, the 7th or 8th inning, still in the game.

      Yankees fans need to face it. There’s nothing special about Phil Hughes. He’s not terrible. But, he’s not an elite pitcher and never will be…

    7. Raf
      April 9th, 2012 | 6:47 am

      Jim TreshFan wrote:

      Heard the comment that the last time both New York and Boston started a season 0-3 was in 1966. Not a good year as I recall.

      Also heard the comment that last time the Yankees started 0-3 was 1998

    8. Raf
      April 9th, 2012 | 6:48 am

      3 games into the season, let’s relax. This isn’t nearly as troubling as IBB players the first inning of the season, nor resting players 3 games into the season.

    9. ken
      April 9th, 2012 | 8:02 am

      LMJ229 wrote:

      It’s just kind of incomprehensible that a team with a $200 million payroll can’t beat a team with a $60 million payroll.

      Re: Tampa: There is a quote about the Rays in an entertaining Deadspin article about the Orioles. Link to article and blurb about Rays below.

      http://deadsp.in/Ih2X2M

      The thrifty Tampa Rays, through brilliant scouting and clever payroll management and great luck, are enjoying a few turns of their own now. Just do exactly what the Rays did—draft a platoon of ace pitching prospects and have them all stay healthy, develop some MVP-quality position players, trade stars away at the peak of their value, before their production starts to slip—and you, too, can have a winning team in the A.L. East.

    10. EHawk
      April 9th, 2012 | 11:07 am

      @ Raf:
      I agree…Girardi’s coaching blunders this series really upset me. Most of all the 1st inning IBB to Sean Rodriguez who is a singles hitter and hit like .220 last year to face a HR hitter like Pena. Leaving in Rapada in game 2 after he walked the only guy he should of faced in Pena was another blunder then ended up maybe costing them. I was also furious when he left Logan in to face Keppinger when he had Wade ready in the pen…Keppinger murders lefty pitching. I’ve been saying this since Girardi came here that he blows at least 10 wins a year for the Yanks. How many he wins he gets them I don’t know but he loves to try and get cute and over manage too much.

    11. ken
      April 9th, 2012 | 11:20 am

      EHawk wrote:

      I was also furious when he left Logan in to face Keppinger when he had Wade ready in the pen…Keppinger murders lefty pitching.

      Girardi addressed this in a post game interview. He said that the batter after Keppinger was another lefty and he did not want to waste the bullpen with multiple switches. I think that’s defensible even if you disagree.

    12. Garcia
      April 9th, 2012 | 11:24 am

      Steve L. wrote:

      There’s nothing special about Phil Hughes. He’s not terrible. But, he’s not an elite pitcher and never will be…

      I’d like to know which Yankee fans have been perpetuating that fraud? I haven’t heard any Yankee fan calling Hughes anything but a #4 or #5. Elite? Hyperbole on your part.

    13. April 9th, 2012 | 11:24 am

      I’d like to chalk this lost weekend up to strange things happening when playing baseball indoors.

      That said, many of us have dark disturbing doubts about this team. Some of the doubts stem from the age of the left side of the infield. Let’s face it, we’re in no man’s land. Some of the doubts stem from a closer who is 42. About Phil Hughes who appears to be turning into just another guy. About Pineda who appears to be the 2012 version of Weaver and Vasquez.

      Right now it’s just three games, a month from now this may be nothing more than a bad weekend in Tampa. Still, those doubts…

    14. April 9th, 2012 | 11:27 am

      Garcia wrote:

      I’d like to know which Yankee fans have been perpetuating that fraud? I haven’t heard any Yankee fan calling Hughes anything but a #4 or #5. Elite? Hyperbole on your part.

      Really? Since the day he was drafted, Yankees fans have been running around calling him one of “The Big Three” or “Phil the Phranchise” and dumb crap like that…

    15. EHawk
      April 9th, 2012 | 11:35 am

      @ ken:
      The batter after Keppinger was Molina who was a righty and then followed by Jennings who is also a righty. So if Girardi really said that then he is really out of it. The situation is that there was 2 outs so if you bring in Wade there he gets the final out and then can start the next inning. It was a big run cause it gave the Rays a 3 run lead which is huge. You have to figure he had Wade up for that situation cause it sure wasn’t to face Molina who is no threat at all. Sorry but it was another bonehead decision by Girardi.

      On a side note you could tell the Yanks were on a getaway day…they were swinging a lot early and at some bad pitches. No patience at all.

    16. Raf
      April 9th, 2012 | 12:09 pm

      Steve L. wrote:

      Really? Since the day he was drafted, Yankees fans have been running around calling him one of “The Big Three” or “Phil the Phranchise” and dumb crap like that…

      Hughes was drafted in 2004. He made his debut in 2007. There have been a few twists and turns since then, it is now 2012. I haven’t heard “The Big Three” since 2008, and I haven’t heard “Phil the Phranchise” since maybe 2009.

    17. Raf
      April 9th, 2012 | 12:10 pm

      And it’s only one start. Pretty early to bury Hughes’ 2012 season.

    18. Garcia
      April 9th, 2012 | 12:10 pm

      @ Steve L.:
      So just cause people were saying that in 2008 that that means it still applies in April, 2012?

    19. MJ Recanati
      April 9th, 2012 | 12:18 pm

      ken wrote:

      He said that the batter after Keppinger was another lefty and he did not want to waste the bullpen with multiple switches.

      The Rays used, I believe, six pitchers on Friday.

      I don’t see why “wasting the bullpen” on the third day of the season in a winnable game would be so bad. They’re freakin’ called LOOGY’s for a reason and the reason is that they can’t get outs against righties.

    20. LMJ229
      April 9th, 2012 | 3:29 pm

      The fact that Phil Hughes has not lived up to his star billing should come as a surprise to no one. We have a front office that has absolutely zero ability to identify and develop starting pitching. Cashman has been the GM for 14 years now. In 2002 we had a starting rotation of Pettitte, Mussina, Clemens, Wells and Hernandez. Since then, here is the list of starting pitchers who have come and gone: Weaver, Contreras, Vazquez, Lieber, Brown, Johnson, Wang, Pavano, Wright, Chacon, Lidle, Pettitte (Part II), Clemens (Part II), Hughes, Igawa, Ponson, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Sabathia, Burnett, Vazquez (Part II), Nova, Colon and Garcia. And this doesn’t count our many wonderful spot starters like Rasner, Gaudin, Moseley and Mitre. That’s 10 years of futility.

      To be fair, this problem has existed long before Cashman became the GM. The problem now is that our core, everyday players are grossly overpaid and getting old. With the new salary cap rules coming into effect in 2014, we will not be able to sign good established pitchers and will need to rely on our young arms. This is the organizational plan as stated by Cashman and Steinbrenner. With our track record in devloping young arms we could be in for some very rough years.

    21. LMJ229
      April 9th, 2012 | 3:41 pm

      EHawk wrote:

      I’ve been saying this since Girardi came here that he blows at least 10 wins a year for the Yanks.

      I agree. It seems at times that Girardi lacks faith in his players. Either that or he is just impatient and feels the need to do something.

    22. April 9th, 2012 | 5:36 pm

      LMJ229 wrote:

      The fact that Phil Hughes has not lived up to his star billing should come as a surprise to no one. We have a front office that has absolutely zero ability to identify and develop starting pitching. Cashman has been the GM for 14 years now. In 2002 we had a starting rotation of Pettitte, Mussina, Clemens, Wells and Hernandez. Since then, here is the list of starting pitchers who have come and gone: Weaver, Contreras, Vazquez, Lieber, Brown, Johnson, Wang, Pavano, Wright, Chacon, Lidle, Pettitte (Part II), Clemens (Part II), Hughes, Igawa, Ponson, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Sabathia, Burnett, Vazquez (Part II), Nova, Colon and Garcia. And this doesn’t count our many wonderful spot starters like Rasner, Gaudin, Moseley and Mitre. That’s 10 years of futility. To be fair, this problem has existed long before Cashman became the GM. The problem now is that our core, everyday players are grossly overpaid and getting old. With the new salary cap rules coming into effect in 2014, we will not be able to sign good established pitchers and will need to rely on our young arms. This is the organizational plan as stated by Cashman and Steinbrenner. With our track record in devloping young arms we could be in for some very rough years.

      But, Cash is a ninja and the best GM ever!

      Yes, I am kidding.

    23. Raf
      April 10th, 2012 | 6:37 am

      LMJ229 wrote:

      . And this doesn’t count our many wonderful spot starters like Rasner, Gaudin, Moseley and Mitre. That’s 10 years of futility.

      No, 10 years of futility is what the O’s and Pirates and Royals have gone through.

      With the new salary cap rules coming into effect in 2014, we will not be able to sign good established pitchers and will need to rely on our young arms.

      Says who?

      At any rate,

      Since then, here is the list of starting pitchers who have come and gone: Weaver, Contreras, Vazquez, Lieber, Brown, Johnson, Wang, Pavano, Wright, Chacon, Lidle, Pettitte (Part II), Clemens (Part II), Hughes, Igawa, Ponson, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Sabathia, Burnett, Vazquez (Part II), Nova, Colon and Garcia. And this doesn’t count our many wonderful spot starters like Rasner, Gaudin, Moseley and Mitre.

      How many of those pitchers were “good” and/or “established?”

    24. MJ Recanati
      April 10th, 2012 | 4:22 pm

      LMJ229 wrote:

      Since then, here is the list of starting pitchers who have come and gone: Weaver, Contreras, Vazquez, Lieber, Brown, Johnson, Wang, Pavano, Wright, Chacon, Lidle, Pettitte (Part II), Clemens (Part II), Hughes, Igawa, Ponson, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Sabathia, Burnett, Vazquez (Part II), Nova, Colon and Garcia.

      Sorry but any list that counts Chien-Ming Wang as part of “futility” is total and complete bullshit. How quickly you’ve forgotten…

    25. LMJ229
      April 10th, 2012 | 9:38 pm

      Raf wrote:

      No, 10 years of futility is what the O’s and Pirates and Royals have gone through.

      I wasn’t speaking of futility in terms of wins and losses. I was speaking in terms of developing young arms.
      Raf wrote:

      Says who?

      Says Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner.
      Raf wrote:

      How many of those pitchers were “good” and/or “established?”

      Again, my point was that there are only 2 pitchers on the list that we developed (Wang and Nova). I’m not counting Petitte since he was already well established by 2002.

    26. LMJ229
      April 10th, 2012 | 9:44 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Sorry but any list that counts Chien-Ming Wang as part of “futility” is total and complete bullshit. How quickly you’ve forgotten…

      I haven’t forgotten. My point is that there are only 2 pitchers on that list that were developed internally over the last 10 years. Two pitchers in ten years. That seems pretty futile to me.

    27. Raf
      April 11th, 2012 | 6:51 am

      LMJ229 wrote:

      I wasn’t speaking of futility in terms of wins and losses. I was speaking in terms of developing young arms.

      And has it mattered? The Yanks average some 95 wins. They had the best pitching in the league last year despite having Burnett, Hughes Garcia and Colon in the rotation

      Says Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner.

      I’ll believe it when I see it. The Yankees have always signed pitching since the advent of free agency. I’ll be surprised when they *don’t* sign pitching.

      Again, my point was that there are only 2 pitchers on the list that we developed (Wang and Nova). I’m not counting Petitte since he was already well established by 2002.

      Right. Pettitte came up in 1995. He was signed in 1991 after being drafted the year prior. Before Pettitte, there was Guidry. He was drafted in 1971, and came up in 75 and pitched until 88, retiring in 89.

      So yeah, Wang and Nova are right in line with what the Yanks have done over the years. Honestly, it’s early to compare them to Pettitte and Guidry, and Wang’s story shows that anything can happen to pitching.

      In 2002, as you correctly point out, there was only one homegrown starter in Pettitte. In 1996, it was the same. In 1995, it was three (Pettitte, Kamienecki, Hitchcock), two of which started in the ALDS. Hitchcock was traded McDowell left, Gooden, Rogers & Cone signed;

      Anyway, did the other GMs that helmed the Yankees have the same issue assessing pitching?

      And when it comes to free agency, why can’t the Yanks go for another instance like Garcia or Colon? They don’t need to sign anyone to a Zito type contract.

      And if a pitcher goes 15-10, 3.00 for 5 years, what difference does it make if it’s a young pitcher, an old pitcher, or 5 different pitchers each year?

    28. Evan3457
      April 11th, 2012 | 10:21 am

      Sorry I missed this fight. Down in Florida with Dad, getting ready to move him north.

      1. It’s a mistake for this season to judge Hughes off one start.
      2. Hellickson is the pitcher Hughes is trying to be and wishes he was, but Hellickson has a natural feel for the change and for setting hitters up.
      3. The Yanks 0-3 start is not very meaningful. The Rays started 1-8 last year, till they ran into and swept…

      …the Red Sox, who themselves started 0-6, took 2 of 3 from the Yanks to get to 2-7, and dropped to 2-10 after the Rays swept them. The Sox gradually gathered momentum, played like the best team in baseball from May through late August, and then collapsed, allowing…

      …the Rays to charge to and win the wild card.

      4. We’ve gone over and over the Yanks troubles with starting pitching. The problems have been overstated by a significant amount.

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