• Possible Red Sox & Dodgers Mega Deal

    Posted by on August 24th, 2012 · Comments (42)

    Via ESPN -

    The Dodgers and Red Sox are closing in on a deal that would send Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett, Carl Crawford and Nick Punto to Los Angeles, though a few hurdles remain before it’s official, multiple baseball sources said Friday.

    Pitcher Rubby De La Rosa will be headed back to Boston as the centerpiece of the deal, sources say. De La Rosa made his first major league appearance of the season Wednesday, having had Tommy John surgery about 13 months ago. Also included are first baseman James Loney and prospects Ivan De Jesus (infielder) and Jerry Sands (outfielder), according to sources, plus another top prospect that is still unknown.

    The Dodgers optioned De La Rosa to Double-A Chattanooga on Friday afternoon. Gonzalez was scratched prior to Friday’s game and summoned to the clubhouse, along with Punto. Loney was a scratch as well, and was called to manager Don Mattingly’s office.

    Giving up Gonzalez would be a shocking change of direction for the Red Sox, who in December 2010 traded two of their top prospects — first baseman Anthony Rizzo and pitcher Casey Kelly — to acquire the first baseman. Gonzalez is making $21 million this season, the first in the seven-year, $154 million extension he signed in April 2011.

    But with the Red Sox essentially out of contention for a playoff spot and the Dodgers under new ownership, Los Angeles is aggressively making a strong bid to bolster its chances for this season and the future.

    Beckett, a 10-and-5 player, has the right to refuse to go to L.A.

    It’s likely the Dodgers would absorb most, though not all, of the $261 million that Gonzalez, Beckett and Crawford are owed after this season.

    A Red Sox official, speaking on the condition of anonymity Thursday, insisted the Red Sox had no issues with Gonzalez on or off the field, but said the club was exploring all avenues to improve. Ridding itself of Gonzalez’s salary might free up resources that would allow it to make significant improvements to a pitching staff that has significantly underperformed.

    “I think something is happening, but I’m in a state of disbelief that it is,” one baseball source said Friday.

    If they pull this off, it would be amazing that the Red Sox could clear all that baggage and salary. I cannot remember the last time a team moved that much money in one deal. A-Rod to the Yankees was big. But, this is three players. Kudos to Boston if they can swing this one.

    Update: Dodgers agree to trade for Adrian Gonzalez, deal awaits approval

    Comments on Possible Red Sox & Dodgers Mega Deal

    1. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 24th, 2012 | 8:37 pm

      So much for a Recession in baseball.. I remember a time when deals involving the Yankees with BIG CONTRACTS would have the media flapping about this.. Now its a GREAT THING for the DODGERS and REDSOX.. IRONY..

    2. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 24th, 2012 | 8:39 pm

      Steve.. the deal just happen!!.. All traded to the dodgers,, beckette, Agon Punto..

    3. LMJ229
      August 24th, 2012 | 9:27 pm

      I’d be shocked if the BoSox aren’t forced to absorb a big chunk of salary. If not the Dodgers just got fleeced. How do you justify taking on both the headaches and the contracts of Beckett and Crawford? Seriously, if we were Red Sox fans wouldn’t we be thrilled just to get rid of those two guys?

    4. Raf
      August 24th, 2012 | 9:43 pm

      Personally, I think this is pretty cool. Good on the Dodgers and Red Sox

      Red Sox throwing in the towel, blowing up the team and starting anew. Will interesting to see what direction they’ll take under Valentine. It will also be interesting to see what Pedroia, Lester and Ortiz will have to say about this deal.

    5. LMJ229
      August 24th, 2012 | 11:52 pm

      @ Raf:
      Yes it will be VERY interesting to see what happens going forward especially if they retain Valentine. I wonder if this is a case of management backing their coach and putting the players in their place?

    6. Evan3457
      August 25th, 2012 | 4:42 am

      LMJ229 wrote:

      I’d be shocked if the BoSox aren’t forced to absorb a big chunk of salary. If not the Dodgers just got fleeced. How do you justify taking on both the headaches and the contracts of Beckett and Crawford? Seriously, if we were Red Sox fans wouldn’t we be thrilled just to get rid of those two guys?

      Reports are that the Dodgers will absorb all but a small fraction of the money. If so, Cherington swindled them; he got massive salary relief AND at least two real prospects in De La Rosa and Webster.

    7. Evan3457
      August 25th, 2012 | 4:43 am

      LMJ229 wrote:

      @ Raf:
      Yes it will be VERY interesting to see what happens going forward especially if they retain Valentine. I wonder if this is a case of management backing their coach and putting the players in their place?

      I said they can’t trade the whole team, and would have to fire Valentine.

      I was wrong; they traded the whole team. Well, a huge chunk of it anyway.

    8. Evan3457
      August 25th, 2012 | 4:45 am

      Interesting that the Dodgers have united Hanley with Beckett. The Tigers already took Sanchez. Wonder what Lowell is up to these days…

    9. Raf
      August 25th, 2012 | 7:59 am

      LMJ229 wrote:

      I wonder if this is a case of management backing their coach and putting the players in their place?

      I think this is more of the Red Sox assessing where they are, and trying to start anew. After last year and this year, they had to do something.

      I’m curious to see what they’re going to do, because they have the money to spend, but I don’t see this FA class as talented as the one in 2008.

    10. redbug
      August 25th, 2012 | 9:36 am

      @ LMJ229:
      I’d be shocked if the BoSox aren’t forced to absorb a big chunk of salary.

      According to the Boston herald…

      Blockbuster complete
      The rebuilding of the Red Sox begins today.
      Early this morning, the Red Sox and Dodgers concluded a blockbuster deal in which the Red Sox shipped four players – Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett, Carl Crawford and Nick Punto – in exchange for a massive relief in salary as well as four minor-leaguers and first baseman James Loney, according to a Red Sox source.

      The deal will be worth in excess of $275 million to the Red Sox including luxury tax savings and salaries for the remainder of this season and beyond. Over the next six years, the Dodgers will receive $12 million from the Red Sox, with the payments to begin next year.

    11. Garcia
      August 25th, 2012 | 11:17 am

      The Dodgers bailed out the Sox by taking Manny, then they help them out again by taking every long-term contract. Crazy trade, and great job by the Sox to get rid of those guys.

    12. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 25th, 2012 | 12:00 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Good on the Dodgers and Red Sox

      I wonder if Yankee fans would think this was good if they did this?. They be calling for Cashmans head IMO.. What this proves is that the Redsox spent and they were wrong about it. What kills me just a few short years ago the REDSOX were the ideal franchise on how to build a ballclub.. And instead of beating up the Redsox front office about it, the media is making it the best trade since Babe Ruth was traded to the yankees. You simple got to Love the double standard with sports writers..

      All I know is I busting with laughter on how dumb the Redsox and Dodgers are for doing this.. If I had 250mm to spend, the last thing I would be spending it on is Beckette, Crawford, Punto and Agon all at once.

    13. Corey
      August 25th, 2012 | 1:39 pm

      Man…in one night the Red Sox get a clean slate. What the hell. Instead of being bad for the next 5+ years they can reload on the free agent market the next couple of years and be back in contention in 2-3. Damn. Cherrington should win executive of the year for this, bravo.

      Steve, this is a knock on Cashman too. He does not have the balls to make a move like this, for sure.

    14. agsf
      August 25th, 2012 | 1:41 pm

      “All I know is I busting with laughter on how dumb the Redsox and Dodgers are for doing this.

      The Red Sox? I’m hoping you’re just drunk. This is a brilliant move by the Red Sox, which in itself is admitting the mistakes they’ve made in the past, and fixing them overnight.

    15. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 25th, 2012 | 1:46 pm

      agsf wrote:

      I’m hoping you’re just drunk

      Drunk with LAUGHTER!. Exactly what did the Redsox fix?.. They dumped a ton of $$.. If that is in your opinion is a fix, tell me then who in their right mind would sign with them after this?. and who is to say they are not going to piss away the same amount of money on bad signing again?. Or are you certain in thinking they are so smart to use that money to sign better players?. honeslty, who is the one that is drunk here?…

    16. KPOcala
      August 25th, 2012 | 2:04 pm

      Funny, last year, at the beginning of the season the pundits were touting the ’11 Red Sox as having “possibly the Greatest Team, ever”. Now Red Sox ownership will have to hope that what they got back in minor league players pan out, and that future free agents work as well.

      What irritates me is that the Dodgers are tossing the cash, whilst the very rich Yankee ownership is acting as though they read Jeff Loria’s book of maximizing profits. This isn’t to say that they have become Loria, but the fact that Cashman doesn’t seem able to scratch a few million out of Hal & Company to pick up some quality depth has me worried. I mean, relying on Andrew Jones and Raul Ibanez? No organizational depth in the pitching dept? Come on! Steve likes to blame Cashman, but this is Hal, Hank, and Levine…………

    17. Corey
      August 25th, 2012 | 2:08 pm

      FakeGeneMichaels wrote:

      Exactly what did the Redsox fix?.. They dumped a ton of $$.. If that is in your opinion is a fix, tell me then who in their right mind would sign with them after this?

      You’re missing the point..

      2 years ago they were a third place team, last year they were a third place team, this year 4th place.

      What makes you think this team is going to win as is? So, instead, what they did was got rid of all the players that were giving Bobby V a hard time, got rid of all the money. They have a clean slate. That’s dangerous.

      —-
      and who is to say they are not going to piss away the same amount of money on bad signing again?.
      —-
      Sure, they certainly could. But this gives them another roll at the dice. What if they hit? What if they end up paying power hitting 1b money to a 1b that is actually a power hitting 1b? What if they pay a pitcher ace money, and he’s actually an ace? What about a corner OFer that isn’t injured? With the players they had, they knew they weren’t going to win. This gives them another oppurtunity.

      Instead of a 5-6 year turnaround time. now they have 2-3 year turnaround time. That’s pretty powerful, if you ask me.

    18. Corey
      August 25th, 2012 | 2:10 pm

      On top of that, they get Beckett away from Lester. Watch Lester go back to being an ace now.

    19. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 25th, 2012 | 2:15 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      Come on! Steve likes to blame Cashman, but this is Hal, Hank, and Levine…………

      Couldnt agree more on this. The new CBA if I read it correctly, states if you are in the top 4 teams to have the highest payroll from 2009 thru 2013, you will pay a tax starting in 2014. If your not then any tax you did pay during those years you get back.. The Yankee from what I understand will get back about 75mm. It might not seem like allot of money to the Yankees but Hal, Hank and Levine are about to get a nice Christmas bonus if they get the payroll down. The new CBA should be called how to $crew the Yankees big time..

    20. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 25th, 2012 | 2:23 pm

      Corey wrote:

      Sure, they certainly could. But this gives them another roll at the dice. What if they hit? What if they end up paying power hitting 1b money to a 1b that is actually a power hitting 1b? What if they pay a pitcher ace money, and he’s actually an ace? What about a corner OFer that isn’t injured? With the players they had, they knew they weren’t going to win. This gives them another oppurtunity.

      I dont know if your aware of this, but John Henry made his money the old fashion way on WALL STREET as the smartest commodities trader out side of WD GANN, now we can go back and forth on this, but I will tell you, NO WAY IN HELL is Henry ever going to allow this to happen again. If you honestly think that the Redsox are two or three years away from fixing this mess, then, I will not argue your opinion nor will I point out that is allot of IF to happen. Time will tell who is right about this, but if you plan on making a bet they will be better and they will make smarter choices and if you think Henry will allow them to spend his money again, I will take that bet with you all day long!..

    21. Corey
      August 25th, 2012 | 2:32 pm

      @ FakeGeneMichaels:
      I hate that you are making me bet that the Sox are going to be good, but I would make that bet everyday. Today, they are so much better off as an organization than they were yesterday at this time. It’s a fact.

    22. Corey
      August 25th, 2012 | 2:34 pm

      FakeGeneMichaels wrote:

      I point out that is allot of IF to happen.

      If you’re the Red Sox, you take the IF 100% of the time over the certainty. They weren’t going to win with those players.

    23. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 25th, 2012 | 2:38 pm

      Corey wrote:

      2 years ago they were a third place team, last year they were a third place team, this year 4th place

      Corey I get the point. What I am saying is who can say for certain this move unlike their signings are going to pan out?. What I reading on this thread is that the Sox are freeing up money to spend again!.. Ok, why would any owner go thru this again? The Redsox clearly are going to move to their youth and lock up the ones they want to control for a longer period of time. Nothing wrong with that IMO, in fact that is how it should be, but last I looked, the RedSox farm system is not producing top Pitching to compete in the AL east. and given the fact that there is no big time Pitcher coming to the FA market after this year or for that matter the next two year, how do they expect to jump ahead of the Rays, O’s, Tigers, Angels, Ranger and Yankees for a playoff spot in the next three to five years?. I guess anything is possible but I see allot of NO OCTOBER BASEBALL in Boston for a long time. Time will only tell how this will pan out..but IMO, your giving allot of credit to an organization that lost site on how to build a winning team…

    24. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 25th, 2012 | 2:46 pm

      Corey wrote:

      I hate that you are making me bet that the Sox are going to be good, but I would make that bet everyday. Today, they are so much better off as an organization than they were yesterday at this time. It’s a fact.

      better because they were wrong in their judgement on how to build a franchise by spending wrecklessly and cleaned house with players who hated bobby V.? Well, knowing a little about John Henry from working on Wall street, you dont want to be the trader on the other side of his bets!. I have to believe that is how he runs the Redsox.. thats what I believe in..but its your money.. bet away as you like… but be warned, betting with your heart, most often will get it cut out..

    25. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 25th, 2012 | 2:54 pm

      Corey wrote:

      If you’re the Red Sox, you take the IF 100% of the time over the certainty. They weren’t going to win with those players

      And I will tell you John Henry didnt make BILLIONS betting this way!. They may not have won with these players and I will agree, but we will never know but they sure had allot of injuries that compounded their situation.. Hey its not my money and I honestly can care less what happens to them.. I am a Yankee fan first and to see Boston go thru this is making my year! But I am telling you, Henry will not allow the spending like in the past to happen again. he would rather cut his losses and sell the team before that happens again…

    26. KPOcala
      August 25th, 2012 | 5:51 pm

      Well we ought to both grin that “The Genius that was Theo wasn’t” and congratulate him for the sense to “boldly run away”…… People can spin it as a savvy move by the Sox, but the truth is that a lot has to go right for them to quickly contend again. They were in a lose-lose situation, and Henry would rather take the buck in the hand at this point.

    27. LMJ229
      August 25th, 2012 | 9:54 pm

      Raf wrote:

      I’m curious to see what they’re going to do, because they have the money to spend, but I don’t see this FA class as talented as the one in 2008.

      I think they will attempt to sign Kuroda. He has proven that he can pitch very effectively in the AL East. And if they offer him a multi-year deal (say 2yrs/$25M) they will likely succeed at taking him from the Yankees who I don’t think will offer him more than a 1-year deal. Kuroda has been a very solid #2 for us. Losing him would definitely hurt.

    28. MJ Recanati
      August 25th, 2012 | 10:04 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      Well we ought to both grin that “The Genius that was Theo wasn’t” and congratulate him for the sense to “boldly run away”…… People can spin it as a savvy move by the Sox, but the truth is that a lot has to go right for them to quickly contend again. They were in a lose-lose situation, and Henry would rather take the buck in the hand at this point.

      Reactionary, in my opinion. The fact that the Red Sox made this deal does in now way repudiate the logic and intelligence of the move to acquire Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres. People are piling on here and quite unfairly too.

      As far as “spin” goes, this was a good move for the Red Sox in that they found a team willing to take on an astronomical sum of money AND give them a few prospects of greater than C- value. If you look at what the Marlins got in comparison for Hanley Ramirez, the Red Sox did quite well for themselves (and dumped five times the amount of money in the process).

      Theo was a good GM for the Red Sox and it’s absurd to take this trade as evidence to the contrary.

    29. LMJ229
      August 25th, 2012 | 10:11 pm

      @ FakeGeneMichaels:
      Not sure I’m getting your point. Are you saying that the Red Sox will not use the money they just saved to sign any big-time free agents? That they will look to rebuild inhouse, like the Rays?

    30. LMJ229
      August 25th, 2012 | 10:21 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      As far as “spin” goes, this was a good move for the Red Sox in that they found a team willing to take on an astronomical sum of money AND give them a few prospects of greater than C- value. If you look at what the Marlins got in comparison for Hanley Ramirez, the Red Sox did quite well for themselves (and dumped five times the amount of money in the process).

      Therein lies the true barometer of which team “won” this trade. Usually when you do a salary dump, as the Red Sox clearly did, you do not get quality prospects in return.

      Of course, if Beckett and Gonzalez help the Dodgers to win the World Series this year, I guess Dodgers management and fans would think it was all worth it. But they will have a hefty price to pay going forward that could handcuff that team for years. It’s the age-old question: is it worth it?

    31. KPOcala
      August 26th, 2012 | 12:45 am

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Reactionary, in my opinion. The fact that the Red Sox made this deal does in now way repudiate the logic and intelligence of the move to acquire Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres. People are piling on here and quite unfairly too

      The Sox gave the Padres their best prospects for a first baseman with shoulder issues. Then Theo over-paid for Lackey, aptly named at that, then gave a 7 year contract to a guy that had only one truly exemplary season. I don’t believe that’s piling on. And I also believe that I wrote a few comments on this blog early in 2011 that it was a little early to panic at the Sox move. And Theo bravely running away probably vindicates my assertions. But I could be entirely wrong.

    32. KPOcala
      August 26th, 2012 | 12:59 am

      @ MJ Recanati: Oh, and I forgot to mention the $101,000,000 Gyro pitcher named “Dice”. Put another way, he was “The Genius”, who maybe wasn’t. No piling on, just fact.

    33. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 26th, 2012 | 12:58 pm

      LMJ229 wrote:

      Not sure I’m getting your point. Are you saying that the Red Sox will not use the money they just saved to sign any big-time free agents? That they will look to rebuild inhouse, like the Rays?

      The point is how SOON will the Redsox contend again. And what contend means if making the playoffs. Some here believe it will be 2 or 3 years. I say not very likely and it will be longer. If they decide to go the draft method, well to use your example of the Rays, they had many years of TOP picks to get where they are. Which means a losing record. Guys like PRICE, GARZA, SHEILDS, LANGO, MOORE,COBB don’t come to you when your winning or contending. As far as spending for FA?. Well, the debate continues, will they spend? Some believe they will, I for one think many factors work against them. One is the loyalty they displayed by dumping guys like Crawford and AGON. How many FA will second guess signing with them and second the fiscal responsibility that John Henry will place on his front office. I think their days of going out and signing a BIG IMPACT player are gone in the near future. And the near future to me is more than 2 years..Long term things can change but for now NO WAY will they do this. Because of these factors, 2 or 3 years is not likily to build a playoff team. Playoff BASEBALL in beantown in my estiminate is way beyond 3 years. But of course, Henry can simply sell his to team to owners like the Dodgers and all bets are off at the point…

    34. LMJ229
      August 26th, 2012 | 1:25 pm

      @ FakeGeneMichaels:
      I can’t see the Red Sox not going out and signing some big impact players, not with their fan base. And Henry does seem to respond to the wants of his fan base.

    35. ken
      August 26th, 2012 | 1:31 pm

      Buster Olney’s take with quote and link to full article:

      – Within the sport, the criticism of the Dodgers’ trade with the Boston Red Sox is very strong. It’s as if this is Major League Baseball’s version of the infamous Herschel Walker deal, which transformed the Dallas Cowboys franchise into a powerhouse…. NL executive: “Great deal for Boston. They would have done the deal with no talent coming back. To get two good young arms is incredible. –

      http://tinyurl.com/c4movdv

    36. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 26th, 2012 | 1:39 pm

      LMJ229 wrote:

      @ FakeGeneMichaels:
      I can’t see the Red Sox not going out and signing some big impact players, not with their fan base. And Henry does seem to respond to the wants of his fan base.

      You mean the same fan base that wanted Crawford and AGON then screamed to trade them?. Watching how Henry operates on Wall street for the past 25 years, I am going to bet, he will do things his way going forward IMO. hey, stranger things have happen but I would be SHOCKED he goes against the very logic that made him RICH. This time around he will do things his way. Thats my take on it for what its worth..

    37. LMJ229
      August 26th, 2012 | 3:36 pm

      @ FakeGeneMichaels:
      Since you seem to have some insight into Henry’s thinking, I’m curious, what EXACTLY do you think he will do? Can you be more specific instead of saying that he will do things “his way”? I’m not sure what “his way” is.

    38. FakeGeneMichaels
      August 26th, 2012 | 6:47 pm

      @ FakeGeneMichaels:
      Since you seem to have some insight into Henry’s thinking, I’m curious, what EXACTLY do you think he will do? Can you be more specific instead of saying that he will do things “his way”? I’m not sure what “his way” is.

      I expect King Henry to TOTALLY OVERHAUL his portfolio..The first thing like all GREAT TRADERS is he will cut all of his losing positions.. So, this sell off we witness is only the beginning of players going.. I am certain he already sat down with his department heads (front office) before this selloff but expect them to continue this until the 2013 season. He will want a full evaluation of each of his players and rate them on a return to cost basis to his portfolio or % of his return and evaluate which are good long term bets and which are losing bets. That means no one is safe in that clubhouse.. Guys like Ortiz, Ellsbury, Dustin and Yes even Lester may be gone. It’s not to say they will be but don’t be surprised if some are or most. But it doesnt just stop here..

      Organizational structure: I see some front office executives being replaced and some moved to other departments. People he trusted in the past are no longer part of his inner circle.. Decisions will be done on a committee basis. There will not be one decision maker but a committee of three who will control cost. Trading and signings players are on a return of investment basis only. What this means is more shorter term contracts in return for players traded and any signings on current roster players will be short. NO BIG FA signings in the future. He will not look to pry away the best trader on the street from another brokerage firm. He will promote from withing this time. Depending how aggressive they move on trading other players going forward, I bet the Redsox will be somewhere in the middle of the pact in salary payouts (between 13 to 15 in league payroll) Drastic? YES, but he didnt become the KING of trading for no reason. He will not double down and increase his bet leveage, but simply play the percentage and wait for the market to correct itself back in his favor. I am not sure where the Redsox payroll will stand after the recent trades, but If they are not at the middle or near the middle bet the ranch they will be.

      Since the most precious commodity (no pun intended) in investing is information, he will allocate his ($$) resources into scouting and increase payroll on minor league player development and hire the best talent evaluators(scouts) in the business. Although these are not headline makers, and have little or no interest to your average fan, but these are the signs of BIGGER changes to come.. I expect this to happen right away. In fact it already happen based on this direction they are taking and announcements will come soon. But like all news good or bad, it will come after the market closes so, it will be announced after the season. This will give them the chance to finish outlining the blueprints they are laying out internally and to their fans and put their list together of losing positions (players).

      Fiscally, he will demand over all organizational salary to be reduced. Since he can’t change players contracts, he will gut non-performing departments. This is like cutting a Traders compensation and gutting a department that is losing money for his firm. In return he will leave ticket sale prices alone until all pieces of the NEW portfolio are determined.

      Surprise, Bobby V returns next season. I expect him to be on a very short lease. But the handwriting in on the wall.. Once the blueprint is outlined and announced, Henry will not tolerate those who dont follow orders.. The question is will Bobby V be a good executive and buy into this?. I simply dont know. but my advise if he wants to manage all of next season and beyond, do it or be gone!

    39. KPOcala
      August 26th, 2012 | 7:24 pm

      @ FakeGeneMichaels: Good luck with picking players who will exact a premium to play in Boston (think early ’90′s Yankees). Good luck with “prospects” that may not be. Good luck with team chemistry. And, OBTW, John Henry, good luck appeasing your fans, you’ve got till next June….

    40. MJ Recanati
      August 26th, 2012 | 8:30 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      The Sox gave the Padres their best prospects for a first baseman with shoulder issues.

      The Red Sox gave Rizzo and Kelly (and an org. guy in Fuentes) for Gonzalez. Looking at Gonzalez’s performance, this shoulder issue clearly hasn’t hampered him in the slightest:

      Gonzalez, 2004-2010: .284/.368/.507
      Gonzalez, 2011-2012: .321/.381/.515

      KPOcala wrote:

      Then Theo over-paid for Lackey, aptly named at that

      John Lackey was averaging three marginal wins above replacement (2.9 bWAR) per season from 2002-2009. The going rate for such performance via free agency is $15M. That Lackey hasn’t pitched well in Boston does not mean that Epstein overpaid for a guy who got exactly what he was worth in free agency.

      You’re arguing hindsight and revisionist history.

    41. MJ Recanati
      August 26th, 2012 | 8:32 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      @ MJ Recanati: Oh, and I forgot to mention the $101,000,000 Gyro pitcher named “Dice”. Put another way, he was “The Genius”, who maybe wasn’t. No piling on, just fact.

      Opinion, not fact. I’d say Epstein had an incredibly successful run in Boston, ran a good farm system, won two World Series and came within one game of a third pennant in a five year span. If you want to say he sucks then, jeez, I don’t know what to tell you.

    42. KPOcala
      August 26th, 2012 | 11:37 pm

      MJ, in reply to the above: A-Gon’s numbers should have been higher given the park differences, so I stand by my assertion. Lackey, basking in the after-glow of not wanting to come out of a playoff game had been annointed as a “warrior”. Considering Lackey played with some great defensive teams, and was a somewhat above average pitcher riding into his thirties, yes he was overpaid. If Cashman had done the same everyone on this blog would be flogging Cashman, hindsight or not. And what part am I exactly “rivising”? That Theo paid $100+ million for Dice-K? Isn’t every discussion regarding a GM’s performance hindsight? That you haven’t done exactly the same thing on this blog over the years? Did Theo not sign Crawford to a huge contract, to a team loaded with left-handed hitters, and to a player that although a great gloveman had one maybe two very good, not great, years with the bat? I understand that GM’s ultimately do what their bosses want, and that praise and criticsm both can become out of proportion to actual accomplishments. It may well be that Theo didn’t orchestrate many of the above moves, which is why he moved on. But the possibility exists that once he saw how his team was actually performing like he/they had planned he saw two steps ahead. His team was barren in the farm, loaded with overpaid players (maybe some cancers that were metastizing) and he split. I’m not knocking Theo as hard as you seem to think. I have, however, the feeling that when he swung the Nomar trade that he became “Teflon Theo” and the press (my real beef) just couldn’t get out of each other’s way to give praises. In a strange way Cashman has gotten the opposite treatment, ‘sure he wins, with that money’, your disdain of the 20/20 hindsight should give you an appreciation when his guys blow a shoulder/elbow/whatever out. I understand where your coming from, this is generally a friendly blog, and I had my chance at a parting Theo shot to show how people get praised/scorned(at least in my mind)before all the crows roost. OK?

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