• It’s WAR! Curtis Granderson Vs. Coco Crisp In 2012

    Posted by on December 10th, 2012 · Comments (23)

    If you’re a fan of WAR, then these two players had the same value in 2012:

    Rk Player WAR/pos ▴ Year Age Tm G PA
    2 Coco Crisp 2.7 2012 32 OAK 120 508
    3 Curtis Granderson 2.7 2012 31 NYY 160 684
    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
    Generated 12/10/2012.

    .
    But, if you believe that homeruns are more important than defense, then, you may not think that Granderson was just as valuable as Crisp last year.

    Comments on It’s WAR! Curtis Granderson Vs. Coco Crisp In 2012

    1. MJ Recanati
      December 10th, 2012 | 5:44 pm

      What’s your point? 2.7 bWAR is a solid MLB starting player which is what both Granderson and Crisp were last year.

    2. Evan3457
      December 10th, 2012 | 5:46 pm

      So, then the Yanks should trade Granderson for Crisp in order to save money, right?

      No?

      Then what’s the point, that a better player can have a worse season, and appear to be no more valuable than a lesser player having a good season?

      That’s pretty obvious, isn’t it?

    3. December 10th, 2012 | 5:57 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      What’s your point? 2.7 bWAR is a solid MLB starting player which is what both Granderson and Crisp were last year.

      If I had Crisp on my team, I wouldn’t put him up on a float in a parade the way that some Yankees fans do with Granderson.

    4. Corey
      December 10th, 2012 | 6:45 pm

      Phil Hughes must LOVE having Granderson on this team, from a WW perspective :)

    5. Raf
      December 10th, 2012 | 7:21 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Then what’s the point, that a better player can have a worse season, and appear to be no more valuable than a lesser player having a good season?

      Last 3 seasons (career) bWAR

      Crisp: 2.7, 2.4, 3.2 (21.8)
      Granderson: 2.7, 5.3, 4.1 (31.9)

      Context :D

    6. KPOcala
      December 10th, 2012 | 9:30 pm

      Most analysts seem to believe that defensive metrics still need tweaking, not to mention that Granderson is great baserunner. So, IMHO, in this case, WAR=NFW.

    7. MJ Recanati
      December 11th, 2012 | 12:16 pm

      Steve L. wrote:

      If I had Crisp on my team, I wouldn’t put him up on a float in a parade the way that some Yankees fans do with Granderson.

      Again with the straw-man argument. That “some fans” do this or that is irrelevant. The Yankees acquired Granderson and Granderson has been productive for the team (4.03 bWAR). Nothing more to add here.

    8. December 11th, 2012 | 12:28 pm

      @ KPOcala:
      How many steals did Granderson have in 2012?

    9. December 11th, 2012 | 12:38 pm

      Corey wrote:

      Phil Hughes must LOVE having Granderson on this team, from a WW perspective

      LOL.
      No more Swisher. Half a year without A-Rod. Granderson gone soon. Hughes maybe down the line. Yeah, life is good!

    10. KPOcala
      December 11th, 2012 | 2:26 pm

      @ Steve L.: In this case I was referring to his taking the extra base as opposed to just base stealing. From the games I watched he really has great clock in his head, and always aware of the situation. I can’t imagine that any GM in baseball would trade Granderson for Crisp, unless they had serious money concerns….

    11. Corey
      December 11th, 2012 | 6:59 pm

      @ Steve L.:
      And then it’s back to CC. :)

    12. KPOcala
      December 11th, 2012 | 10:02 pm

      @ MJ Recanati: So then Steve, “should have been a pair of ragged claws
      Scuttling across the floor of silent seas”?

      Couldn’t resist with the “straw-man” comment ;) And I don’t get the anti-Granderson thing. If he played for Boston or Tampa, fans would be clamoring to “do what it takes” to acquire him. Fans have a tendency to over-rate what a player “can’t do” versus what they “can” do….Oh, and trade said player without having someone who’s better that can be acquired…..

    13. Corey
      December 11th, 2012 | 10:23 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      And I don’t get the anti-Granderson thing.

      He’s Adam Dunn as a center fielder who plays average defense. Nothing wrong with that.

    14. MJ Recanati
      December 12th, 2012 | 9:47 am

      KPOcala wrote:

      I don’t get the anti-Granderson thing…Fans have a tendency to over-rate what a player “can’t do” versus what they “can” do….

      Corey wrote:

      He’s Adam Dunn as a center fielder who plays average defense. Nothing wrong with that.

      Agree with both statements. He’s a good guy, he plays hard, he doesn’t complain, he’s underpaid by market standards and he’s been productive over the three seasons he’s been in New York. There’s nothing about him that we shouldn’t like.

    15. December 12th, 2012 | 10:44 am

      Yeah, let’s ignore Granderson’s Ks, terrible OBA last year, and the fact that me makes Terrence Long look like Devon White in CF…

    16. MJ Recanati
      December 12th, 2012 | 11:01 am

      Steve L. wrote:

      Yeah, let’s ignore Granderson’s Ks, terrible OBA last year, and the fact that me makes Terrence Long look like Devon White in CF…

      So 2010 and 2011 don’t count? The fact that he had a “bad” 2012 (where 2.7 bWAR is still the value of a solid, everyday regular MLB player) justifies all the hate?

      If you say so…

    17. December 12th, 2012 | 11:14 am

      @ MJ Recanati:
      Yup. A.J. Burnett was decent in 2009. But, that didn’t give him a buddy pass for 2010 and 2011. So, why should Granderson get a pass for 2012?

    18. MJ Recanati
      December 12th, 2012 | 1:29 pm

      Steve L. wrote:

      Yup. A.J. Burnett was decent in 2009. But, that didn’t give him a buddy pass for 2010 and 2011. So, why should Granderson get a pass for 2012?

      AJ Burnett bWAR 2009-2011:

      4.2, -1.0, 0.4

      Curtis Granderson bWAR 2010-2012:

      4.1, 5.3, 2.7

      Context, Steve. You didn’t give AJ Burnett a buddy pass for 2010-2011 because he was rotten in both seasons. Granderson wasn’t rotten in 2012, he was merely above-average instead of very good.

    19. December 12th, 2012 | 2:22 pm

      But, given that the miracle worker Kevin Long “fixed” the great Granderson, shouldn’t it be very concerning that he’s trending down?

    20. MJ Recanati
      December 12th, 2012 | 3:32 pm

      Steve L. wrote:

      But, given that the miracle worker Kevin Long “fixed” the great Granderson, shouldn’t it be very concerning that he’s trending down?

      Moving the goalposts once again. Is it not possible for a player to simply have a “bad” season?

    21. Raf
      December 12th, 2012 | 6:24 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Is it not possible for a player to simply have a “bad” season?

      Depends if you’re a fan of the player and/or if you’re a fan of the GM that acquired the player :P

    22. Corey
      December 12th, 2012 | 6:54 pm

      Steve L. wrote:

      and the fact that me makes Terrence Long look like Devon White in CF…

      He’s not that bad, come on. He’s average to below average only because he takes some odd routes sometimes. His speed makes up for a lot of his potential mistakes and also yields a great play once in a while.

    23. KPOcala
      December 12th, 2012 | 11:26 pm

      @ Steve L.: Steve your being a bit harsh with his fielding. I’d say that Granderson is a better fielder than Bernie was. Again, if a player can man center with roughly average defense, and carries a potent stick, your looking at a star. And as I noted earlier, he is a helluva base runner. One of the best at taking an extra base in any situation.

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