• A.J. Burnett

    Posted by on April 18th, 2013 · Comments (122)
    Year Age Tm Lg W L W-L% ERA GS IP HR BB SO ERA+
    2005 28 FLA NL 12 12 .500 3.44 32 209.0 12 79 198 116
    2006 29 TOR AL 10 8 .556 3.98 21 135.2 14 39 118 115
    2007 30 TOR AL 10 8 .556 3.75 25 165.2 23 66 176 119
    2008 31 TOR AL 18 10 .643 4.07 34 221.1 19 86 231 104
    2009 32 NYY AL 13 9 .591 4.04 33 207.0 25 97 195 114
    2010 33 NYY AL 10 15 .400 5.26 33 186.2 25 78 145 82
    2011 34 NYY AL 11 11 .500 5.15 32 190.1 31 83 173 83
    2012 35 PIT NL 16 10 .615 3.51 31 202.1 18 62 180 106
    2013 36 PIT NL 1 2 .333 2.63 4 24.0 2 8 35 143
    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 4/18/2013.

    .
    So, just what happened in New York?

    Comments on A.J. Burnett

    1. Corey
      April 18th, 2013 | 1:04 pm

      He was signed by Cashman, duh.

    2. Raf
      April 18th, 2013 | 1:05 pm

      Or more specifically, 2010-11.

      I know his HR rate spiked in 2011. Strangely enough, IIRC he pitched better @ home than he did on the road.

    3. McMillan
      April 18th, 2013 | 1:12 pm

      Corey wrote:

      He was signed by Cashman

      Agreed.

    4. Ricketson
      April 18th, 2013 | 2:17 pm

      During a conference call to announce his… new contract, Cashman began an answer about… Burnett by saying, “If he’s with us, he’s in the rotation.”
      While some interpreted that as a sign that Cashman was planning to deal the… righthander… the general manager and son of George Steinbrenner’s longtime personal friend, Harness Racing Hall of Fame member John Cashman, clarified himself… saying… ‘I guess it was a bad choice of words… My intention wasn’t to imply that we were looking to trade him. I tried to explain that for everybody that doesn’t have a full no-trade, I’m willing to be open-minded, listen and try to be creative…
      I’m trying to add to my rotation, so if I subtract from it, I’ll have to add even more.’” What an idiot…

    5. Raf
      April 18th, 2013 | 2:38 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      During a conference call to announce his… new contract, Cashman began an answer about… Burnett by saying, “If he’s with us, he’s in the rotation.”
      While some interpreted that as a sign that Cashman was planning to deal the… righthander… the general manager and son of George Steinbrenner’s longtime personal friend, Harness Racing Hall of Fame member John Cashman, clarified himself… saying… ‘I guess it was a bad choice of words… My intention wasn’t to imply that we were looking to trade him. I tried to explain that for everybody that doesn’t have a full no-trade, I’m willing to be open-minded, listen and try to be creative…
      I’m trying to add to my rotation, so if I subtract from it, I’ll have to add even more.’” What an idiot…

      You can remember all that, yet forget that Bob Watson is black… Interesting.

    6. McMillan
      April 18th, 2013 | 2:49 pm

      Some players are not well-suited for N.Y.C. or expectations associated with the $82.5 million free agent contract in such a market as Cashman offered.“They want me to be better,” Burnett said. “I make a lot of money. I have a big contract, so it’s only fair nature.” Fair nature?

      “So forgive him for saying yes to a contract,” Cashman said. “If you want to blame someone for his contract, blame me… The public outcry recently is all emotion rather than actual.” All emotion rather than actual?

    7. McMillan
      April 18th, 2013 | 2:52 pm

      @ Raf:
      Bob Watson is black?

    8. Ricketson
      April 18th, 2013 | 3:01 pm

      @ Raf:
      Was he black when he was with the Astros?

    9. OldYanksFan
      April 18th, 2013 | 4:21 pm

      Yup… some guys wilt under the heat.
      Not a lot of heat up there in Pittsburg.
      And playing in the NL Central against powerhouses like the Brewers and the Cubs didn’t hurt.

      You could see it when he was here.
      He would sail along…. but as soon as guys got on base, he would implode.

      He was the Anti-Pettitte.

      Are some of you here (Steve) actually implying that this ‘bummer anomaly’ was tied to Cashman????

    10. MJ Recanati
      April 18th, 2013 | 4:38 pm

      OldYanksFan wrote:

      Yup… some guys wilt under the heat.

      Ah, the old “not tough enough for New York” canard. If only it were that simple an explanation…

    11. Raf
      April 18th, 2013 | 5:14 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      @ Raf:
      Bob Watson is black?

      Shocking, I know!

    12. Raf
      April 18th, 2013 | 5:15 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      OldYanksFan wrote:
      Yup… some guys wilt under the heat.
      Ah, the old “not tough enough for New York” canard. If only it were that simple an explanation…

      2011
      H: 7-6, 4.41, 8.2 (k/9), 2.31 (SO/BB)
      A: 4-5, 6.28, 8.2 (k/9), 1.82 (SO/BB)

      2010
      H: 5-7, 4.59, 7.5 (k/9), 2.03 (SO/BB)
      A: 5-8, 5.76, 7.3 (k/9), 2.00 (SO/BB)

      2009
      H: 5-3, 3.51, 8.9 (k/9), 2.00 (SO/BB)
      A: 8-6, 4.59, 8.0 (k/9), 2.02 (SO/BB)

      So much for that…

    13. Corey
      April 18th, 2013 | 5:41 pm

      OldYanksFan wrote:

      Are some of you here (Steve) actually implying that this ‘bummer anomaly’ was tied to Cashman????

      We’ve both been here a long time. I’d hope by now you’d know I was joking. :)

    14. Mr. October
      April 18th, 2013 | 7:29 pm

      Raf wrote:

      So much for that…

      Burnett in AL East consecutive years, 2006-12: 2006-08 (3 yrs.) in Toronto market; 2009-11 (3 yrs.) in New York market as $82.5M free agent:

      Tor: W-L: 256-230
      NY: W-L: 295-191

      Tor: W-L: 38-26; ERA: 3.94; IP: 522; H: 487; R: 250; K/BB: 1.98
      NY: W-L: 34-35: ERA: 4.79: IP: 584: H: 587; R: 332; K/BB: 2.75

      Next 2 years in Pittsburgh market:

      Pit: W-L: 17-12; ERA: 3.42…

    15. Mr. October
      April 18th, 2013 | 7:33 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      Tor: W-L: 38-26; ERA: 3.94; IP: 522; H: 487; R: 250; K/BB: 1.98
      NY: W-L: 34-35: ERA: 4.79: IP: 584: H: 587; R: 332; K/BB: 2.75

      Should have been NY: K/BB: 1.98; Tor: K/BB: 2.75

    16. McMillan
      April 18th, 2013 | 7:56 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Shocking, I know!

      What does Watson have to do with Burnett, other than the facts that: 1. if Watson had been the G.M., the team would not have been in a position of having to sign a Burnett to get back to the postseason; and 2. the team would not have signed a pitcher to an $82.5 mil. contract that did not have the makeup to pitch in N.Y.C., only to eat a substantial portion of it?

      OldYanksFan wrote:

      Are some of you here (Steve) actually implying that this ‘bummer anomaly’ was tied to Cashman????

      It wasn’t tied to Watson. For the years 2006-13, Burnett’s 3 worst years were registered with the $82.5 mil. contract Cashman gave this head case to pitch in a situation he couldn’t handle (2009-2011) in N.Y..

      “I’m trying to add to my rotation, so if I subtract from it, I’ll have to add even more.” “I have a big contract, so it’s only fair nature.” Dumb and dumber…

    17. Ricketson
      April 18th, 2013 | 8:29 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      Cashman gave this head case to pitch in a situation he couldn’t handle (2009-2011) in N.Y..

      There is a story that illuminates how Burnett [struggled] with the Yankees for three seasons but [has flourished in] Pittsburgh… [T]he tale dates back two Yankees pitching coaches… It’s the same thing that was written on the warning label that came with him when they gave him a five-year, $82.5 million deal to leave Toronto…
      “It starts with his head,” then-Yankees pitching coach Eiland said… there’s a… technical term for this in baseball. It’s Head Case…
      [Burnett] spoke about how in the first inning of his home debut as a Pirate, he coughed up a walk, a single and another walk to the first three batters he faced… “I could imagine what that place [Yankee Stadium] would sound like,” Burnett said. “But there was about two words that came out of the crowd here.. “You’re a little less on edge. Some guys thrive in that…” Burnett is one of them…

    18. Raf
      April 18th, 2013 | 9:23 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      Raf wrote:
      So much for that…
      Burnett in AL East consecutive years, 2006-12: 2006-08 (3 yrs.) in Toronto market; 2009-11 (3 yrs.) in New York market as $82.5M free agent:
      Tor: W-L: 256-230
      NY: W-L: 295-191
      Tor: W-L: 38-26; ERA: 3.94; IP: 522; H: 487; R: 250; K/BB: 1.98
      NY: W-L: 34-35: ERA: 4.79: IP: 584: H: 587; R: 332; K/BB: 2.75
      Next 2 years in Pittsburgh market:
      Pit: W-L: 17-12; ERA: 3.42…

      So then why did he pitch better in NY?

    19. Raf
      April 18th, 2013 | 9:29 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      What does Watson have to do with Burnett

      Burnett was signed by Cashman, who was Assistant GM under Watson. Both loved head case pitchers in Kenny Rogers and AJ Burnett. Both acquired lefty relievers that sucked during the regular season but came up big in the postseason (Lloyd & Marte).

    20. Mr. October
      April 18th, 2013 | 9:44 pm

      Raf wrote:

      So then why did he pitch better in NY?

      He pitched demonstrably better in Toronto and Pittsburgh in consecutive years that immediately preceded and followed his years in The Bronx.
      As to the question of why he pitched better at home than he did on the road from 2009-11, that is probably one for a Psy.D., or sports psychologist, which I am not.
      Remember Eddie Lee Whitson? He would find himself running red lights in an attempt to escape the harassment of fans that had spotted him driving, or on his way home from The Stadium; Billy Martin even wanted a piece of him.
      But the numbers don’t lie: a 2.75 K/BB ratio in Tor. and 1.98 K/BB ratio in NY, for instance and overall with a superior team, and his continued success in Pittsburgh.

    21. McMillan
      April 18th, 2013 | 9:58 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Burnett was signed by Cashman.

      Correct.
      Raf wrote:

      Cashman, who was Assistant GM under Watson.

      And GM on top of Meanwell.
      Raf wrote:

      Both loved head case pitchers in Kenny Rogers and AJ Burnett.

      Only Cashman has loved both head case pitchers and head case women. And Watson converted Rogers into Brosuis.
      Raf wrote:

      Both acquired lefty relievers that sucked during the regular season but came up big in the postseason (Lloyd & Marte).

      And the similarities end there.

    22. Raf
      April 18th, 2013 | 10:17 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      Remember Eddie Lee Whitson? He would find himself running red lights in an attempt to escape the harassment of fans that had spotted him driving, or on his way home from The Stadium; Billy Martin even wanted a piece of him.

      Yep, and Martin got a piece of him. Wound up with a broken arm in the process.

      FWIW, Whitson sucked in other ML stops too.

      But the numbers don’t lie

      You’re right, they don’t. Burnett performed better in NY than he did on the road. If he couldn’t handle NY and the hostile crowd due to his suckiness, he had a funny way of showing it.

    23. Raf
      April 18th, 2013 | 10:32 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      Only Cashman has loved both head case pitchers and head case women. And Watson converted Rogers into Brosuis.

      Who was retained by Cashman.

      And the similarities end there.

      Yep.
      http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2009/12/23/youk-cashman-win-boston-writer-awards
      http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/40under40/profiles/2006/brian-cashman?=/40under40/profiles/1999/joan-e-mazzu

      “Brian Cashman has done a great job for us and we want him to be with the Yankees for a long time.”

    24. Mr. October
      April 18th, 2013 | 10:33 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Yep, and Martin got a piece of him. Wound up with a broken arm in the process.

      It was Whitson that wound up with a broken arm.
      Raf wrote:

      If he couldn’t handle NY and the hostile crowd due to his suckiness, he had a funny way of showing it.

      No he didn’t. He pitched in only 62 more innings in his 3 seasons in N.Y. than in his 3 seasons in Toronto, and Burnett’s numbers were worse in N.Y. across the board, sometimes significantly worse. And the same is true in Pittsburgh. And the differences you posted, if correct, were not that significant in many cases.

    25. Mr. October
      April 18th, 2013 | 10:33 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      It was Whitson that wound up with a broken arm.

      Excuse me: Martin.

    26. McMillan
      April 18th, 2013 | 10:43 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Who was retained by Cashman.

      That’s right. Cashman retained Brosius and dealt Lowell in one of the worst trades in the franchise’s history – while we’re on the subject of a Cashman free agent signing, and one of the worst fee agent signings in the franchise’s history.
      Raf wrote:

      Burnett performed better in NY than he did on the road.

      Which road was that? His numbers were not much better away from home in his three years in Pinstripes – assuming your numbers are correct, which is a big assumption.

    27. McMillan
      April 18th, 2013 | 10:59 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      And the differences you posted, if correct, were not that significant in many cases.

      1 game over .500 at home and 1 game below .500 away in 2011; 2 games below .500 at home and 3 games below .500 away in 2010; 2 games above .500 at home and 2 games above .500 away in 2009.
      Mr. October wrote:

      He pitched in only 62 more innings in his 3 seasons in N.Y. than in his 3 seasons in Toronto, and Burnett’s numbers were worse in N.Y. across the board, sometimes significantly worse. And the same is true in Pittsburgh.

      Burnett was not tough enough for New York.

    28. Evan3457
      April 18th, 2013 | 11:00 pm

      Yeah, Burnett is something of a head case.

      What’s funny is that his post-season record for the Yanks is mixed. Three good games, 3 bad ones, and one OK one. I mean, it’s not like he was Ed Figueroa, who never pitched a good game for the Yanks in 3 post-seasons.

      And AJ won what was arguably the biggest game of the whole 2009 post-season, game 2 of the World Series vs. the Phillies. And he pitched a beauty that night.

    29. McMillan
      April 18th, 2013 | 11:05 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      I mean, it’s not like he was Ed Figueroa, who never pitched a good game for the Yanks in 3 post-seasons.

      And made $110,000.00/yr.

    30. Evan3457
      April 18th, 2013 | 11:45 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      I mean, it’s not like he was Ed Figueroa, who never pitched a good game for the Yanks in 3 post-seasons.
      And made $110,000.00/yr.

      Figueroa was essentially the #2 or #3 starter for three straight pennant winners, but he’s excused from pitching a good game in the post-season in 7 tries because of his low salary.

      Got it.

    31. April 19th, 2013 | 7:24 am

      Evan3457 wrote:

      And AJ won what was arguably the biggest game of the whole 2009 post-season, game 2 of the World Series vs. the Phillies. And he pitched a beauty that night.

      Didn’t the HP ump help him out a lot that night?

    32. MJ Recanati
      April 19th, 2013 | 9:10 am

      Steve L. wrote:

      Didn’t the HP ump help him out a lot that night?

      Scroll to the bottom of this link. Looks like a good strikezone to me.

      http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pitcher/150359/?batters=A&count=AA&pitches=AA&from=10%2F29%2F2009&to=10%2F29%2F2009

    33. April 19th, 2013 | 9:27 am

      @ MJ Recanati:

      The difference between World Series Game 2 A.J. Burnett, who gave up one run in seven innings while striking out nine, and World Series Game 5 A.J Burnett, who gave up six runs and managed to get a total of six outs before being yanked in the midst of a messy third inning, actually isn’t a discussion topic for the next meeting of the American Psychoanalytic Association. Nor is it entirely a matter of Burnett’s starting Game 2 on short rest. No, the difference between the two A.J.s is Jeff Nelson and Dana DeMuth. Both Nelson and DeMuth are Major League Umpires. The former called balls and strikes in Game 2, and the latter in Game 5. Nelson sees one of the most generous strike zones in pro baseball, and DeMuth one of the most parsimonious. Jonathan Hale at The Hardball Times did a great thumbnail study in 2007 that vividly illustrates how the two men work: Nelson calls nearly five more strikes per game than a league-average umpire and DeMuth calls four fewer, which means that a pitcher—let’s call him A.J. Burnett—who threw his last game in front of Nelson will get roughly nine fewer strike calls from DeMuth. Absent DeMuth’s Post-It-sized strike zone, Burnett would still have given up a three-run homer to Utley in the first inning, but he might not have collapsed in the third. Though he would still have begun the inning by walking Utley on five pitches, perhaps he wouldn’t also have walked Howard, to whom ball two, a 95 mph fastball up and in, was clearly a strike—DeMuth’s stingiest call of the night. In fact, Burnett would have had a damn good chance of striking out Howard, who last night tied the all-time record for Ks in a World Series. And he would have struck out Jayson Werth (to whom his first pitch was a strike not a ball) rather than allowing an RBI single to him. With, let’s say, two outs and Utley on first, Burnett would have pitched to Ibanez, whose single to right would have moved Utley to third. Burnett would then have faced Pedro Feliz, who’s 2 for 15 lifetime against him, with a chance to get out of the inning without allowing a run.

      Read More http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-q/2009/11/the-baseball-nerd-aj-burnett-vs-the-tiniest-strike-zone-in-the-bigs.html#ixzz2QupHduFd

    34. MJ Recanati
      April 19th, 2013 | 10:37 am

      @ Steve L.:
      All of that is well and good but, based on the strikezone plot from Pitch F/X, I still don’t see a generous strikezone. If another umpire has a stingy strikezone, that’s a different story. But there’s nothing about Nelson’s zone in Game 2 that looks “generous.”

    35. MJ Recanati
      April 19th, 2013 | 10:40 am

      @ Steve L.:
      Along those lines, here’s the strikezone plot from Game 5.

      http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pitcher/150359/?batters=A&count=AA&pitches=AA&from=11%2F2%2F2009&to=11%2F2%2F2009

      Looks like several strikes were called balls. If anything, the strikezone in Game 2 was more “fair” than in Game 5.

    36. Evan3457
      April 19th, 2013 | 12:21 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      @ Steve L.:
      Along those lines, here’s the strikezone plot from Game 5.
      http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pitcher/150359/?batters=A&count=AA&pitches=AA&from=11%2F2%2F2009&to=11%2F2%2F2009
      Looks like several strikes were called balls. If anything, the strikezone in Game 2 was more “fair” than in Game 5.

      From the K zones posted, he got a +1 K zone in game 2 and a -3 K zone in game 5.

      So the zone in game 2 was called nearly perfectly, and the one in game 5 was a little tighter.

    37. McMillan
      April 19th, 2013 | 3:59 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Figueroa was essentially the #2 or #3 starter for three straight pennant winners, but he’s excused from pitching a good game in the post-season in 7 tries because of his low salary.
      Got it.

      I was merely pointing out what salaries were for #2 or #3 starters that were not head cases in the late 1970s. Got it?
      Not surprised you didn’t come back with a “[N]ice straw man” comment to the misrepresentations of the position that Burnett is not tough enough to pitch for the New York Yankees as the position that Burnett is not tough enough to pitch in the jurisdiction of N.Y. or its geographic boundaries as “evidenced” by his home and away record.
      Ricketson wrote:

      It’s the same thing that was written on the warning label that came with him when they gave him a five-year, $82.5 million deal to leave Toronto…
      “It starts with his head”

      And what’s written on the warning label that comes with Cashman is a mile-long and the reason that he will not be a GM with another M.L.B. team. It starts with his head.

    38. MJ Recanati
      April 19th, 2013 | 4:06 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      And what’s written on the warning label that comes with Cashman is a mile-long and the reason that he will not be a GM with another M.L.B. team.

      He’s very well-regarded by his peers around the league so I defintely wouldn’t bet the farm on that.

    39. McMillan
      April 19th, 2013 | 5:04 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      He’s very well-regarded by his peers around the league so I defintely wouldn’t bet the farm on that.

      There’s a $230.4 mil. team on the field this evening with a 39-yr.-old right-fielder hitting .190, a 37 yr.-old third baseman on the D.L. until after the All-Star break, a 39-yr.-old shortstop on the D.L. until after the All-Star break, a 43-yr.-old closer due to retire, a $22.5 mil.-per-yr. first baseman that can not be expected to hit more than .200 in the postseason, Francisco Cervelli as the starting catcher, a 38 yr.-old no. 2 starter signed to a 1-yr. contract, a 41-yr.-old no. 3 starter scheduled to pitch after having had his start pushed back twice in Apr. due to back spasms, that has not won more than 1 pennant and 1 world championship since 2005 with $2 bil+ spent as the G.M. that signed Burnett to an $82.5 mil. looks on from his motorized scooter, and Kei Igawa prepares for his next start with the Orix Buffaloes.
      It’s kind of his peers to say that they regard him very well.

    40. Greg H.
      April 19th, 2013 | 5:30 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      @ Steve L.:
      All of that is well and good but, based on the strikezone plot from Pitch F/X, I still don’t see a generous strikezone. If another umpire has a stingy strikezone, that’s a different story. But there’s nothing about Nelson’s zone in Game 2 that looks “generous.”

      The biggest difference that I recall from those two games was that in game 2, he had a backdoor curve ball going that was filthy. He came in with the fastball to lefties and threw the backdoor curve very effectively. He did not have that kind of location in game 5, especially with the curve, so hitters could sit on the fastball. He didn’t have much fastball command in game 5 either, so he couldn’t spot that and use a curve in the dirt either. I don’t think it was the ump. He just flat out pitched great in one game and poorly in the other.

      Over his three years in NY, I personally was ready to throw things at the TV many times because of AJ, but after that game 2 start, I forgave him a lot of it. We were down a game at home, and that was one hell of a money start.

      OldYanksFan wrote:

      He would sail along…. but as soon as guys got on base, he would implode.
      He was the Anti-Pettitte.

      Man, is this ever perfect.

    41. Raf
      April 19th, 2013 | 7:22 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Figueroa was essentially the #2 or #3 starter for three straight pennant winners, but he’s excused from pitching a good game in the post-season in 7 tries because of his low salary.

      Got it.

      One must grasp at as many straws as they can, when building strawmen. :P

      FWIW, his low salary wasn’t that low, when you consider the avg salary of a MLB player as well as the league minimum back then. If you take it out of context, it may appear low, but the salary structure of MLB in the 70′s isn’t what it is today. Figgy’s $100k salary adjusted for inflation would be $357,013.80, which isn’t even the league minimum for today’s player ($490,000).

    42. Raf
      April 19th, 2013 | 7:28 pm
    43. Evan3457
      April 19th, 2013 | 10:33 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      I was merely pointing out what salaries were for #2 or #3 starters that were not head cases in the late 1970s. Got it?

      Got what? You’re making no point here. None at all.

    44. Evan3457
      April 19th, 2013 | 10:35 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      MJ Recanati wrote:
      He’s very well-regarded by his peers around the league so I defintely wouldn’t bet the farm on that.
      There’s a $230.4 mil. team on the field this evening with a 39-yr.-old right-fielder hitting .190, a 37 yr.-old third baseman on the D.L. until after the All-Star break, a 39-yr.-old shortstop on the D.L. until after the All-Star break, a 43-yr.-old closer due to retire, a $22.5 mil.-per-yr. first baseman that can not be expected to hit more than .200 in the postseason, Francisco Cervelli as the starting catcher, a 38 yr.-old no. 2 starter signed to a 1-yr. contract, a 41-yr.-old no. 3 starter scheduled to pitch after having had his start pushed back twice in Apr. due to back spasms, that has not won more than 1 pennant and 1 world championship since 2005 with $2 bil+ spent as the G.M. that signed Burnett to an $82.5 mil. looks on from his motorized scooter, and Kei Igawa prepares for his next start with the Orix Buffaloes.
      It’s kind of his peers to say that they regard him very well.

      All factoids in search of a real argument. If you want to, you can list everything wrong with every other team…

      …only to have you excuse their GM by saying “They’re not spending $200-230 million”.

    45. Ricketson
      April 20th, 2013 | 8:56 am

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      He’s very well-regarded by his peers around the league so I defintely wouldn’t bet the farm on that.

      Ah, the old “he’s very well-regarded by his peers around the league” canard.
      In the last one hundred years, how many executives or general managers of professional sports franchises in
      MLB, or the NFL, NHL, etc. for that matter, have ever made a public statement that one of their peers was not well-regarded, or “very well-regarded?” What would any GM in MLB have to gain by saying or even implying that the “manchild” posing as a GM for the New York Yankees and most prestigious and valuable sports franchise in the country is not “very well-regarded” publicly?
      Cashman won’t work as a GM for another organization because of his warning label alone, he won’t work as a GM for another organization because of his family’s relationship with the Steinbrenners, and because as long as Hal Steinbrenner is an owner of the team, there will be a place in the organization for his friend of over two decades, and the New York Yankees will always have enough money to field a team capable of winning a division or a wildcard spot.
      I would be willing to bet one of Cashman’s alimony payments that there is not an organization in baseball that would be willing to make the architect of the A.J. Burnett deal the highest-paid GM in the game.

    46. Mr. October
      April 20th, 2013 | 9:01 am

      McMillan wrote:

      Francisco Cervelli as the starting catcher

      Don’t look now, but Cervelli is hitting .324.

    47. Raf
      April 20th, 2013 | 9:54 am

      Ricketson wrote:

      Ah, the old “he’s very well-regarded by his peers around the league” canard.

      It’s not just his peers
      http://www.catholiccharitiesny.org/news-and-events/news/index.cfm?i=20944&y=2011

      http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/cashman-pours-drinks-and-talks-yankees/?gwh=37BCBE6E0E4A55937B27922BAF070C99

      http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100806&content_id=13101452&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

      I would be willing to bet one of Cashman’s alimony payments that there is not an organization in baseball that would be willing to make the architect of the A.J. Burnett deal the highest-paid GM in the game.

      I would be willing to bet one of Cashman’s alimony payments that there is not an organization in baseball that has forgotten that 19 year MLB veteran and former Houston and Yankees General Manager Robert Jose Watson is a black man.

    48. McMillan
      April 20th, 2013 | 10:14 am

      Raf wrote:

      I would be willing to bet one of Cashman’s alimony payments that there is not an organization in baseball that has forgotten that 19 year MLB veteran and former Houston and Yankees General Manager Robert Jose Watson is a black man.

      No wonder he’s all mixed up. He’s got a white man’s first name, a Spanish man’s second name and a black man’s third name.

    49. McMillan
      April 20th, 2013 | 10:17 am

      Raf wrote:

      It’s not just his peers

      No. It’s also his lawyers.

    50. Ricketson
      April 20th, 2013 | 10:28 am

      McMillan wrote:

      No. It’s also his lawyers.

      Or agents with clients such as Kei Igawa.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      If you want to, you can list everything wrong with every other team…

      One thing not wrong with the Yankees is the “41-yr.-old no. 3 starter scheduled to pitch [last night] after having had his start pushed back twice in Apr. due to back spasms,” drafted and signed by Gene Michael. He’s 3-0 with a 2.01 ERA.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      …only to have you excuse their GM by saying “They’re not spending $200-230 million”.

      Actually, as of Opening Day, Cashman was spending $400K more than this from his scooter; we’ll see what the number is at the end of the year and hopefully with at least a pennant to show for it.

    51. McMillan
      April 20th, 2013 | 10:58 am

      Raf wrote:

      It’s not just his peers
      http://www.catholiccharitiesny.org/news-and-events/news/index.cfm?i=20944&y=2011
      http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/cashman-pours-drinks-and-talks-yankees/?gwh=37BCBE6E0E4A55937B27922BAF070C99
      http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100806&content_id=13101452&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

      LOL… It’s not just his peers with whom Cashman is “very well-regarded,” or so they say, it’s also with Foley’s New York Pub, a bar located on 18 West 33rd Street, who’s inductees into its Irish-American Baseball Hall of Fame “include slugger Mark McGwire.” There’s two men of real character. “It’s an honor to be here and this is really cool,” [the "manchild"] said.

    52. Evan3457
      April 20th, 2013 | 12:30 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      MJ Recanati wrote:
      He’s very well-regarded by his peers around the league so I defintely wouldn’t bet the farm on that.
      Ah, the old “he’s very well-regarded by his peers around the league” canard.
      In the last one hundred years, how many executives or general managers of professional sports franchises in
      MLB, or the NFL, NHL, etc. for that matter, have ever made a public statement that one of their peers was not well-regarded, or “very well-regarded?” What would any GM in MLB have to gain by saying or even implying that the “manchild” posing as a GM for the New York Yankees and most prestigious and valuable sports franchise in the country is not “very well-regarded” publicly?
      Cashman won’t work as a GM for another organization because of his warning label alone, he won’t work as a GM for another organization because of his family’s relationship with the Steinbrenners, and because as long as Hal Steinbrenner is an owner of the team, there will be a place in the organization for his friend of over two decades, and the New York Yankees will always have enough money to field a team capable of winning a division or a wildcard spot.
      I would be willing to bet one of Cashman’s alimony payments that there is not an organization in baseball that would be willing to make the architect of the A.J. Burnett deal the highest-paid GM in the game.

      That’s funny, because the Braves bid $16 million a year for 4 years for the same guy. The Yanks had to top both ends to get him.

    53. Evan3457
      April 20th, 2013 | 12:38 pm

      Ricketson
      One thing not wrong with the Yankees is the “41-yr.-old no. 3 starter scheduled to pitch [last night] after having had his start pushed back twice in Apr. due to back spasms,” drafted and signed by Gene Michael. He’s 3-0 with a 2.01 ERA.

      Would that be the same Andy Pettitte that you or Macmillian (can’t remember which one) criticized the GM for re-signing, and the same Andy Pettitte who was drafted under Harding Peterson and not Gene Michael? THAT Andy Pettitte?

      Actually, as of Opening Day, Cashman was spending $400K more than this from his scooter; we’ll see what the number is at the end of the year and hopefully with at least a pennant to show for it.

      What a brilliant reply. I’m devastated.

    54. Ricketson
      April 20th, 2013 | 12:44 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      That’s funny, because the Braves bid $16 million a year for 4 years for the same guy. The Yanks had to top both ends to get him.

      That’s right. “I actually had dinner with the agent [of Carl Crawford] to pretend that we were actually involved and drive the price up,” Cashman said. And the Pavano signing was actually a good one because other teams actually expressed interest in him as well, actually.

    55. Ricketson
      April 20th, 2013 | 1:01 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Would that be the same Andy Pettitte that you or Macmillian (can’t remember which one) criticized the GM for re-signing, and the same Andy Pettitte who was drafted under Harding Peterson and not Gene Michael?

      Pardon me, Harding Peterson. I don’t recall criticism of the resigning of Pettitte per se, but of a state of affairs in which no. 2 and no. 3 starters aged 38 and 41 respectively were being re-signed to one-year contracts by a GM that had been there for 15 years and on a $223 mil. team.
      And of course there was the nonsense of Cashman characterizing the “winter program” as “successful” with the “acquisition” of Pettitte for example, as if Pettitte was ever going to sign elsewhere or Cashman had left himself a choice. So now we have a $230 mil. team taking Sabathia, Kuroda, and Pettitte into the postseason, if they hold up – hopefully the results will be better than last year. At least Swisher won’t be in the lineup.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      What a brilliant reply. I’m devastated.

      And Cashman is planning on holding onto his scooter as a retirement gift for his closer, also drafted by Peterson.

    56. Evan3457
      April 20th, 2013 | 1:09 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      That’s right. “I actually had dinner with the agent [of Carl Crawford] to pretend that we were actually involved and drive the price up,” Cashman said. And the Pavano signing was actually a good one because other teams actually expressed interest in him as well, actually.

      Yeah, that’s right these guys were lying, or were lied to:

      “It appears that A. J. Burnett may soon sign a contract with the Atlanta Braves. David O’Brien has reported that the Braves have offered Burnett a 4 year/60 million dollar contract with a 5th year “easily” vesting option worth between 15 and 20 million. This would give us A. J. Burnett at 5 years/75-80 million which averages 15-16 million dollars a year.”

      Mark Feinsand: “Just as they were finalizing a trade for Javier Vazquez, the Braves were preparing a five-year offer for A.J. Burnett, according to sources.”

      From this very blog, quoting John Heyman:
      “The Yankees are believed to have offered free-agent starter A.J. Burnett a five-year, $80 million deal. The Atlanta Braves are considered the other main contender for Burnett, and they offered him a four-year contract for $60 million with a vesting option for a fifth year. It isn’t known yet whether Atlanta will match the Yankees’ big bid.”

      (Interesting note at the bottom by Steve: “I still feel the same way about the Burnett thing as I did two days ago. But, then again, the Braves are no fools and they seem hot and heavy for him too…”

      ===================================
      No, it wasn’t a fake. The Braves were REALLY bidding on Burnett. You know how I know? Because they signed Derek Lowe to the same deal, minus the vesting option, that they were said to have offered Burnett. There was no reason to fake Burnett if they were going to sign Lowe. They obviously wanted a top free agent pitcher, and Burnett was preferable (by a small amount) over Lowe because of the age difference, and the stuff difference.

    57. Ricketson
      April 20th, 2013 | 1:49 pm

      @ Evan3457:
      So what? There were teams that expressed interest in Pavano also. Burnett has great stuff, but he was not well-suited for New York and as such came with a “warning label,” and was yet another Cashman bust. He probably would have had more success in Atlanta, as he is now having in Pittsburgh.

      Why is it relevant that Atlanta was interested in Burnett, when the issue is that Burnett did not belong in N.Y.?

      Why is it relevant that Detroit was interested in Pavano, as you have alluded to in the past, when the issue is that Pavano should not have been offered a $39.95 mil. contract with his history?

      Why is relevant that Oakland traded Lilly to Toronto, as you have alluded to on another thread, when the issue is all of the young talent that has been Cashmaned over the years and since 1998, not just Lilly?

    58. Evan3457
      April 20th, 2013 | 2:13 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      I don’t recall criticism of the resigning of Pettitte per se, but of a state of affairs in which no. 2 and no. 3 starters aged 38 and 41 respectively were being re-signed to one-year contracts by a GM that had been there for 15 years and on a $223 mil. team.

      Oh, I see. Much more sensible. Especially in light of the fact that the 37- and 40-year old #2 and #3 starters pitched well whenever they pitched all season long last year, even into the post-season, and they’re not signed for 2014, where the organization has decreed that the payroll will drop substantially.

      And of course there was the nonsense of Cashman characterizing the “winter program” as “successful” with the “acquisition” of Pettitte for example, as if Pettitte was ever going to sign elsewhere or Cashman had left himself a choice.

      He could’ve retired, and yes, there were other choices that could’ve been made, but why should they have been?

      So now we have a $230 mil. team taking Sabathia, Kuroda, and Pettitte into the postseason, if they hold up – hopefully the results will be better than last year. At least Swisher won’t be in the lineup.

      It wasn’t the starting pitching that failed vs. the Tigers.
      <blockquote
      And Cashman is planning on holding onto his scooter as a retirement gift for his closer, also drafted by Peterson.

      Mariano was signed at a free agent, and not drafted.
      Oh, and seriously, that Cashman obsession…you might want to reconsider it.

    59. Raf
      April 20th, 2013 | 2:17 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      Burnett has great stuff, but he was not well-suited for New York

      Then why did he pitch better for the Yankees in NY than he did for them on the road?

    60. Evan3457
      April 20th, 2013 | 2:32 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      @ Evan3457:
      So what? There were teams that expressed interest in Pavano also. Burnett has great stuff, but he was not well-suited for New York and as such came with a “warning label,” and was yet another Cashman bust. He probably would have had more success in Atlanta, as he is now having in Pittsburgh.

      No way to know until after you sign him and find out. It’s a risk, but different pitchers carry different types of risk. Buying free agents is inherently risky, that’s why most of them fail to live up to the contract.

      Why is it relevant that Atlanta was interested in Burnett, when the issue is that Burnett did not belong in N.Y.?

      Because:
      1) It means others GM, none of them “fourth-tier” are making similar talent evaluations as the Yankees’ GM, and

      2) It proves the Yanks did have to bid what they bid to land Burnett, and

      3) As I mentioned above, there’s no way to know Burnett belongs in New York until you try it. Does Zack Greinke belong in New York? We’ll never know, will we? We think he doesn’t, but we don’t really know.

      Why is it relevant that Detroit was interested in Pavano, as you have alluded to in the past, when the issue is that Pavano should not have been offered a $39.95 mil. contract with his history?

      1. Not just Dombrowski, but Epstein in Boston as well.

      2. Because if they offer contracts of similar (or even greater money and equal length) it means they judged Pavano the same way the “fourth tier” GM did, and the subsequent failure is NOT a failure of evaluation.

      3. Pavano’s immediate history at that time is that he had just pitched two consecutive full seasons for the first time in his career, was passed the so-called “age 25 injury nexus”, and had pitched very well in the post-season of 2003. It was on the basis of scouting his stuff at the time, as well as his immediate recent performance, that interested the teams that were interested in him at the time. That’s how the market for his services was set, and not a subjective hindsight analysis.

      Why is relevant that Oakland traded Lilly to Toronto, as you have alluded to on another thread, when the issue is all of the young talent that has been Cashmaned over the years and since 1998, not just Lilly?

      That’s your relevant issue, not mine. My relevant issue is that the judgement to trade Lilly was not necessarily a mistake, because two other well-regarded GMs made the same mistake.

    61. Ricketson
      April 20th, 2013 | 5:46 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Oh, I see. Much more sensible. Especially in light of the fact that the 37- and 40-year old #2 and #3 starters pitched well whenever they pitched all season long last year, even into the post-season, and they’re not signed for 2014, where the organization has decreed that the payroll will drop substantially.

      The payroll will drop substantially because John Cashman’s son brought it to $223 mil. in 2012 and $230 mil. in 2013, since 2005 and hundreds-of-millions spent on Igawa, Pavano, Clemens, Johnson, and Burnett ALONE, and only 1 pennant to show for it.
      I have no problem with the job Cashman has done Nov., 2012-present. I liked the signing of Youkilis, and a number of other moves that have been made. It’s Jan., 2005-Nov., 2012 I have a problem with.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      He could’ve retired

      That’s right. Pettitte could have retired; excellent point. And where would this team be today if their no. 3, drafted decades ago by Peterson and pitching to a 3-0 record and 2.01 ERA, had retired with the payroll commitments this team has and a luxury tax threshold of $189 mil taking effect in 2014? It’s been a game of musical chairs in the front end of the rotation for years. Evan3457 wrote:

      It wasn’t the starting pitching that failed vs. the Tigers.

      No. And with an improved postseason lineup in 2013, hopefully the starting pitching will perform well enough that something more than an ALDS series win will be achieved.

    62. McMillan
      April 20th, 2013 | 5:59 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      No way to know until after you sign him and find out.

      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/warning
      Evan3457 wrote:

      As I mentioned above, there’s no way to know Burnett belongs in New York

      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/warning
      Evan3457 wrote:

      My relevant issue is that the judgement to trade Lilly was not necessarily a mistake, because two other well-regarded GMs made the same mistake.

      You mean two well-regarded G.M.s made the same mistake. And those two well-regarded GMs did not make the same mistake, but at least you have conceded that The Stalking Horse made a mistake in the deal. Is it your suggestion that Cashman is a first-tier G.M. that belongs in the company of Beane and Dombrowski? That might be the case – I understand a film company is considering production of a major motion picture about the New York Yankees under Cashman; it is tentatively titled “Meanwell Ball.”

    63. Ricketson
      April 20th, 2013 | 6:21 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      No way to know until after you sign him and find out. It’s a risk, but different pitchers carry different types of risk.

      Ricketson wrote:

      It’s the same thing that was written on the warning label that came with him when they gave him a five-year, $82.5 million deal to leave Toronto…
      “It starts with his head,” then-Yankees pitching coach Eiland said… there’s a… technical term for this in baseball. It’s Head Case…

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Buying free agents is inherently risky, that’s why most of them fail to live up to the contract.

      Oh, I see. Most free agent signings live up to their contracts only to the extent the Igawa, Pavano, Clemens, Johnson, Burnett, etc. signings lived up to theirs?
      Why is it that the worst free agent signings in franchise history all seem to have occurred with the tenure of one GM?
      McMillan wrote:

      I understand a film company is considering production of a major motion picture about the New York Yankees under Cashman; it is tentatively titled “Meanwell Ball.”

      Better than my last joke.

    64. Ricketson
      April 20th, 2013 | 6:32 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Then why did he pitch better for the Yankees in NY than he did for them on the road?

      Why did Cashman meet Louise Meanwell at her mother’s house when the Yankees were on the road?

    65. Raf
      April 20th, 2013 | 6:57 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      Why did Cashman meet Louise Meanwell at her mother’s house when the Yankees were on the road?

      Because he hadn’t forgotten that 19 year MLB veteran and former Houston and Yankees General Manager Robert Jose Watson is a black man.

    66. Ricketson
      April 20th, 2013 | 7:09 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Because he hadn’t forgotten that 19 year MLB veteran and former Houston and Yankees General Manager Robert Jose Watson is a black man.

      It would seem he has forgotten what he should have learned as an Assistant GM under GM Robert Jose Watson. From Oct., 1995 to Feb., 1998, the black man made not 1, but multiple trades the manchild has not equalled or surpassed since.

    67. Raf
      April 20th, 2013 | 8:35 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      From Oct., 1995 to Feb., 1998, the black man made not 1, but multiple trades the manchild has not equalled or surpassed since.

      The manchild has made several trades that surpassed trades that Robert Jose Watson, who mentored the manchild, made.

    68. Evan3457
      April 21st, 2013 | 1:13 am

      McMillan wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      No way to know until after you sign him and find out.
      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/warning

      Rubbish.

      Evan3457 wrote:
      As I mentioned above, there’s no way to know Burnett belongs in New York
      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/warning

      Rubbish.
      Evan3457 wrote:
      My relevant issue is that the judgement to trade Lilly was not necessarily a mistake, because two other well-regarded GMs made the same mistake.

      You mean two well-regarded G.M.s made the same mistake. And those two well-regarded GMs did not make the same mistake, but at least you have conceded that The Stalking Horse made a mistake in the deal. Is it your suggestion that Cashman is a first-tier G.M. that belongs in the company of Beane and Dombrowski?

      No, I meant what I said. Three GMs, two of which, are acknowledged as being good as their jobs, evaluate the same player, and trade him away for not nearly enough. That would appear to be more like they all evaluated Lilly in a similar way and came to the same conclusion. And then, as happens in baseball, the player suprised all three by exceeding expectations. It might be they all made a “mistake”. It might not.

      That might be the case – I understand a film company is considering production of a major motion picture about the New York Yankees under Cashman; it is tentatively titled “Meanwell Ball.”

      Yawn.

    69. Evan3457
      April 21st, 2013 | 2:04 am

      Ricketson wrote:

      “It starts with his head,” then-Yankees pitching coach Eiland said… there’s a… technical term for this in baseball. It’s Head Case…

      Funny, that quote comes from 2010, a year and a half after the Yanks signed him. Funny, that; warning that comes a year and a half too late.

      Oh, I see. Most free agent signings live up to their contracts only to the extent the Igawa, Pavano, Clemens, Johnson, Burnett, etc. signings lived up to theirs?

      Again, neither Johnson nor Igawa were free-agent signings. Cashman also signed Mussina and Kuroda. None of the players you mentioned were disasters as big as, say, Mike Hampton (about negative $75 million) or Barry Zito (signed by…wait for it…Brian Sabean…about negative $80 million in value). Clemens lived up to his first contract (after the trade from the Jays), and again, when he re-signed with the Yanks in 2003.

      Why is it that the worst free agent signings in franchise history all seem to have occurred with the tenure of one GM?

      Because top talent costs far more today that it did even just before he
      became the GM 15 years ago? For example…

      If you adjust for salary inflation, Ed Whitson’s 5 year, $4.4 million deal, when compared to the top of the player salary market in 1985-1989, is equivalent to about $44 million over 5 years, or roughly equivalent to either the Igawa and Pavano signings. Just as big a mistake.

      Andy Hawkins, 3 years, $3.6 million, 1989-1991 is equivalent to about $30 million over 3 years in the current salary market. Hawkins produced negative WAR all 3 years with the Yankees. Even Pavano didn’t do that.

      And finally, in the fall of 1990, the Yanks signed Scott Sanderson at 2 years, $4.5 million (equivalent to 2 years, $22 million today). He had one very good year, and one bad one. They also signed Mike Witt at 3 years, 6 million (equivalent to 3 years, $30 million). Witt produced negative WAR value over the 3 years, and was never better than 0.3 WAR in any of them.

      Who was the GM who signed Sanderson and Witt in the same off-season?
      I’ll give you a hint: it wasn’t Brian Cashman.

      So to sum, your original premise about ALL the worst Yankee pitcher free agent signings occurring while Cashman was GM? Wrong. Flat-out wrong.

      McMillan wrote:

      I understand a film company is considering production of a major motion picture about the New York Yankees under Cashman; it is tentatively titled “Meanwell Ball.”
      Better than my last joke.

      Marginally punny.

    70. Ricketson
      April 21st, 2013 | 1:42 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      If you adjust for salary inflation, Ed Whitson’s 5 year, $4.4 million deal, when compared to the top of the player salary market in 1985-1989, is equivalent to about $44 million over 5 years, or roughly equivalent to either the Igawa and Pavano signings. Just as big a mistake.

      The team was able to trade Whitson, who had been fairly successful in SD two years into the contract for Stoddard and without assuming further financial obligations. What happened with Igawa? Pavano? What did the team eat? $85 mil.? And Burnett?
      Evan3457 wrote:

      Again, neither Johnson nor Igawa were free-agent signings.

      I was referring to Nick Johnson; signed by this idiot with the injury history Johnson had, and to the surprise of no one but Cashman, he appeared in only 24 games as the “left-handed DH.” Igawa was the worst signing of any kind in MLB history, and the second-worst idea Cashman ever had.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      None of the players you mentioned were disasters as big as, say, Mike Hampton (about negative $75 million) or Barry Zito (signed by…wait for it…Brian Sabean…about negative $80 million in value).

      Player transactions in franchise history, or more specifically the 1974-81, and 1992-1999, or so. The 1980s are not worth discussion for the most part with the number of GMs (7), front office turmoil, etc.; not player transactions in the history of the New York Yankees, Colorado Rockies, and San Francisco Giants franchises.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      So to sum, your original premise about ALL the worst Yankee pitcher free agent signings occurring while Cashman was GM?

      The worst free agent signings for periods 1974-81 and 1992-99 approximating the length of time Cashman has been GM. Not all of the bad signings, but the worst of these periods.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      Cashman also signed Mussina and Kuroda.

      Mussina was a difficult one, as was Sabathia; not many GMs would have taken a chance on Mike Mussina. The closest Cashman has come to providing for or maintaining stability in the rotation in 16 yrs.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      Marginally punny.

      I believe that would be “Meanwell” as in “Louise Meanwell,” and “Ball” as in…

    71. Ricketson
      April 21st, 2013 | 1:54 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      My relevant issue is that the judgement to trade Lilly was not necessarily a mistake, because two other well-regarded GMs made the same mistake.

      The mistake was not to trade Lilly; the mistake was to trade Lilly for Weaver. And what any other GM did with Lilly after 2002 is irrelevant to the discussion for that reason.

    72. McMillan
      April 21st, 2013 | 4:33 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Funny, that quote comes from 2010, a year and a half after the Yanks signed him. Funny, that; warning that comes a year and a half too late.

      ? The article (if I’m reading the correct one) states Burnett came with a warning label: that he might be what can be termed technically, a “head case;” the guy’s appearance alone is a warning label. Does he look normal to you? It then goes on to state that at the midpoint of the 2010 season, the Yankees knew that they, in fact, had a “head case,” although it does not state who eventually informed Cashman of this.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      That would appear to be more like they all evaluated Lilly in a similar way and came to the same conclusion.

      Rubbish. That would appear to be three transactions over the course of years that should be looked at or analyzed individually.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      It might be they all made a “mistake”.

      Rubbish. Yawn.

    73. Evan3457
      April 21st, 2013 | 11:28 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      The team was able to trade Whitson, who had been fairly successful in SD two years into the contract for Stoddard and without assuming further financial obligations. What happened with Igawa? Pavano? What did the team eat? $85 mil.? And Burnett?

      You mean the way Contreras became successful after the Yanks traded him? The way Vazquez was successful before and after his time with the Yanks? The way Pavano was successful with the Twins after he left the Yanks? The way Burnett was successful after joining the Pirates?

      I was referring to Nick Johnson

      Oh? Hitter free agents; I didn’t know you wanted to talk about hitter free agents…you mean like Dave Collins, 3 years, $2.25 million dollars (equivalent to 3 years, $22.5 million in today’s market, or, in your parlance, Nick Johnson for 3 years, instead of one; -0.6 WAR in his only season with the Yanks). Or Steve Kemp, 5 years, $5.45 million (equivalent to 5 years, $54.5 million in today’s market, or Nick Johnson for 5 years at a 50% higher salary; 1.7 WAR over two seasons). That kind of hitter?

      Igawa was the worst signing of any kind in MLB history, and the second-worst idea Cashman ever had.

      No, he wasn’t; not nearly the money/value spent in the Hampton/Zito contracts.

      Player transactions in franchise history, or more specifically the 1974-81, and 1992-1999, or so. The 1980s are not worth discussion for the most part with the number of GMs (7), front office turmoil, etc.; not player transactions in the history of the New York Yankees, Colorado Rockies, and San Francisco Giants franchises.

      Uh-uh, sorry, you don’t get to take back the premise you set. Worst in franchise history, you said. You don’t get to qualify it now. Either they are the worst in franchise history, or they aren’t. And I showed plenty of signings before Cashman took charge just as bad.

      The worst free agent signings for periods 1974-81 and 1992-99 approximating the length of time Cashman has been GM. Not all of the bad signings, but the worst of these periods.

      Oh, I see; you get to cherry pick which eras to count, and which ones not to.

      No, you don’t.

    74. Evan3457
      April 21st, 2013 | 11:30 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      My relevant issue is that the judgement to trade Lilly was not necessarily a mistake, because two other well-regarded GMs made the same mistake.
      The mistake was not to trade Lilly; the mistake was to trade Lilly for Weaver. And what any other GM did with Lilly after 2002 is irrelevant to the discussion for that reason.

      It isn’t irrelevant just because you say it is. 3 GMs made the same decision about a player; all were wrong. If you’re trying to prove that only Cashman is stupid because he traded Lilly, then you’re wrong. If you’re trying to prove that he’s stupid because he traded Lilly for Weaver, then the other two are nearly as stupid.

    75. Evan3457
      April 21st, 2013 | 11:34 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      The article (if I’m reading the correct one) states Burnett came with a warning label: that he might be what can be termed technically, a “head case;” the guy’s appearance alone is a warning label. Does he look normal to you? It then goes on to state that at the midpoint of the 2010 season, the Yankees knew that they, in fact, had a “head case,” although it does not state who eventually informed Cashman of this.

      Funny, I found a quote from an article that doesn’t state any warning was given; the article quotes Dave Eiland saying that to a reporter in mid-season, 2010.

      And if they just figured it out in 2010, then it’s too late due to the famous “no-backsies” clause in MLB Basic Agreement.

      That would appear to be three transactions over the course of years that should be looked at or analyzed individually.

      And I did, and came to the conclusion that all 3 GM’s made the same mistake. Which hasn’t yet been refuted

      Rubbish. Yawn.

      Repeating my replies isn’t an argument, either.

    76. McMillan
      April 22nd, 2013 | 11:43 am

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Funny, I found a quote from an article that doesn’t state any warning was given.

      I don’t believe Burnett has a physical warning label that is with him wherever he goes or for G.M.s to request a copy of. I believe the author of the article(s) was stating that there are were a number of reasons to believe Burnett could not handle N.Y. (e.g. anecdotal) at the time Cashman was outbidding Atlanta.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      Repeating my replies isn’t an argument, either.

      Yawn.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      3 GMs made the same decision about a player; all were wrong.

      Three G.M.s did not make the decision to trade a 26 yr.-old left-handed pitcher that was doing well in the most difficult market in professional sports, with two top prospects, for a 25- yr.-old surfer, and head case himself, Jeff Weaver.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      If you’re trying to prove that he’s stupid because he traded Lilly for Weaver, then the other two are nearly as stupid.

      Rubbish. And if a person is interested in proving to someone unacquainted with Cashman that he is stupid, there’s quite a bit of evidence to be presented before this trade. “Louise and Cashman conspired to help cover up the affair by concocting a story that Cashman was helping Louise with her work with charitable organizations… [she] had an idea. She had a blind friend whom she could introduce to Brian Cashman.”

    77. Evan3457
      April 22nd, 2013 | 5:45 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      I don’t believe Burnett has a physical warning label that is with him wherever he goes or for G.M.s to request a copy of. I believe the author of the article(s) was stating that there are were a number of reasons to believe Burnett could not handle N.Y. (e.g. anecdotal) at the time Cashman was outbidding Atlanta.</blockquote

      OK. In my memory, there are anecdotal stories like that about many players. One such was Joaquin Andujar, which didn't matter to the Cards in 1982.

      <blockquoteYawn.

      Right back at’cha.

      Evan3457 wrote:
      3 GMs made the same decision about a player; all were wrong.
      Three G.M.s did not make the decision to trade a 26 yr.-old left-handed pitcher that was doing well in the most difficult market in professional sports, with two top prospects, for a 25- yr.-old surfer, and head case himself, Jeff Weaver.

      So, being a surfer is a reason not to trade for a pitcher. Got it. Lots of oceanfront waves in Detroit, I guess.

      And there’s head case, again. What’s your evidence? Post-hoc rationalization? Can a head case pitch well or play well and help his team to the title, as Weaver did in 2006? Think carefully before you answer that one.

      Rubbish. And if a person is interested in proving to someone unacquainted with Cashman that he is stupid, there’s quite a bit of evidence to be presented before this trade. “Louise and Cashman conspired to help cover up the affair by concocting a story that Cashman was helping Louise with her work with charitable organizations… [she] had an idea. She had a blind friend whom she could introduce to Brian Cashman.”

      1. Which, occurred, first of all, after the Weaver deal, negating your own premise here.
      2. You still haven’t presented any evidence that Cashman is stupid; what you’ve presented is a number of players that Cashman traded for or signed who worked out badly/disastrously, without presenting any cases to the contrary.

    78. Ricketson
      April 24th, 2013 | 1:48 pm

      Raf wrote:

      The manchild has made several trades that surpassed trades that Robert Jose Watson, who mentored the manchild, made.

      How many times do you want to lose the same argument?

    79. Ricketson
      May 29th, 2013 | 1:55 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Ah, the old “not tough enough for New York” canard. If only it were that simple an explanation…

      Burnett’s pitching to a 2.57 E.R.A. in Pittsburgh at the end of May.

    80. MJ Recanati
      May 29th, 2013 | 2:46 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      Burnett’s pitching to a 2.57 E.R.A. in Pittsburgh at the end of May.

      Which doesn’t prove that he couldn’t pitch in New York since we already know that his home ERA was better than his road ERA as a member of the Yankees.

      Don’t you ever get tired of trolling?

    81. Ricketson
      May 29th, 2013 | 2:56 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Which doesn’t prove that he couldn’t pitch in New York since we already know that his home ERA was better than his road ERA as a member of the Yankees.

      No one was talking about his home ERA vs. his road ERA – he did not have the psychological makeup to pitch in a media environment such as New York for a team like the Yankees at home or on the road, as compared to another market such as Toronto or Pittsburgh – at home or on the road. He’s doing pretty well in Pittsburgh – is Cashman still paying his salary?

    82. MJ Recanati
      May 29th, 2013 | 2:59 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      he did not have the psychological makeup to pitch in a media environment such as New York

      Just because you keep on saying it, doesn’t make it true.

    83. Ricketson
      May 29th, 2013 | 3:11 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Just because you keep on saying it, doesn’t make it true.

      No…. the numbers, and Burnett’s own comments, make it true.

    84. MJ Recanati
      May 29th, 2013 | 3:36 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      No…. the numbers, and Burnett’s own comments, make it true.

      Your interpretations of the numbers. What you’re saying is unknowable.

    85. McMillan
      May 29th, 2013 | 10:46 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Your interpretations of the numbers. What you’re saying is unknowable.

      Once again, the original commenter presumably was referring to this head case’s capacity to pitch for a team like the New York Yankees in a city like the City of New York and all that comes with it, not the jurisdiction of the city – this has nothing to do with home/away.

      Burnett obviously did not have the ability to handle the situation psychologically – a fact that was apparent to people such as Eiland, but not those advising The Manchild, or The Manchild himself – not surprisingly.

      Thus you have Burnett pitching extremely well in Pittsburgh and getting paid by Hal Steinbrenner’s G.M. – Facts that are completely knowable, while the Yankees are signing 39-year-old and 41 year-old starting pitchers to one-year contracts to be their no. 2 and no. 3 starters, respectively, and praying for Pettitte’s well-being in October.

      I don’t know how to else to interpret numbers that suck with New York sandwiched by numbers that are very respectable in Toronto and Pittsburgh, especially in the context of professionals within the sport that publicly questioned Burnett’s ability to pitch for the Yankees – not in N.Y.C. or the borough of The Bronx – for the Yankees.

    86. MJ Recanati
      May 30th, 2013 | 8:55 am

      McMillan wrote:

      I don’t know how to else to interpret numbers that suck with New York sandwiched by numbers that are very respectable in Toronto and Pittsburgh

      AJ Burnett, American League (6 years): 1106.2 IP, 4.39 ERA, 100 ERA+, 1.370 WHIP

      AJ Burnett, National League (9 years): 1132 IP, 3.63 ERA, 111 ERA+, 1.263 WHIP

      Your statement doesn’t match facts. Burnett is a better pitcher in Pittsburgh (and in Miami) because the NL tends to deflate pitching metrics whereas the AL inflates them.

      Burnett’s first year in New York was better than his last in Toronto and on par with his first two seasons there. So I’m supposed to believe that, upon arriving in New York, Burnett felt no pressure, pitched to the same numbers has he had in Toronto for the three previous seasons, and pitched the single-most important game of the World Series…and then suddenly felt pressure and couldn’t handle New York for the remaining two years he was there?

      That’s a sensible argument to you?

      Stop trolling, troll.

    87. McMillan
      May 30th, 2013 | 11:16 am

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      AJ Burnett, American League (6 years): 1106.2 IP, 4.39 ERA, 100 ERA+, 1.370 WHIP
      AJ Burnett, National League (9 years): 1132 IP, 3.63 ERA, 111 ERA+, 1.263 WHIP

      What has a breakdown by league got to do with Burnett’s inability to pitch with one particular organization in the New York market, ma’am? Nothing.
      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Burnett is a better pitcher in Pittsburgh (and in Miami) because the NL tends to deflate pitching metrics whereas the AL inflates them.

      Absolute nonsense. Burnett is eleventh in E.R.A. in the N.L. this year.
      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Burnett’s first year in New York was better than his last in Toronto and on par with his first two seasons there.

      That’s because pitching in New York hadn’t gotten into his head yet – by 2011, The Manchild was trying to unload his 2009 $82.5 million free agent starting pitcher, eating a considerable portion of his salary in the process.
      MJ Recanati wrote:

      So I’m supposed to believe that, upon arriving in New York, Burnett felt no pressure, pitched to the same numbers has he had in Toronto for the three previous seasons, and pitched the single-most important game of the World Series…and then suddenly felt pressure and couldn’t handle New York for the remaining two years he was there?

      That’s why they’re called “head cases.” It was a gradual process that came with a “warning label:” “[T]his guy does not have the psychological makeup to pitch in New York.”
      But as we know with Louise Meanwell, Cashman does not seem to notice warning labels.
      MJ Recanati wrote:

      That’s a sensible argument to you?

      How did he pitch in the remaining 2 years in New York? If it was so well, then why did Brian “The Stalking Horse” Cashman, the G.M. so well-respected by his peers, or so they say, send him to Pittsburgh with $16 million.

    88. MJ Recanati
      May 30th, 2013 | 11:24 am

      McMillan wrote:

      What has a breakdown by league got to do with Burnett’s inability to pitch with one particular organization in the New York market, ma’am? Nothing.

      You’re the one that introduced the idea that Burnett couldn’t pitch in New York, based on his success in Toronto. Or didn’t you write this:

      McMillan wrote:

      I don’t know how to else to interpret numbers that suck with New York sandwiched by numbers that are very respectable in Toronto and Pittsburgh,

    89. MJ Recanati
      May 30th, 2013 | 11:27 am

      McMillan wrote:

      MJ Recanati wrote:Burnett is a better pitcher in Pittsburgh (and in Miami) because the NL tends to deflate pitching metrics whereas the AL inflates them. Absolute nonsense. Burnett is eleventh in E.R.A. in the N.L. this year.

      It’s absolute nonsense that ERA inflates in the American League and deflates in the National League?

      The rest of the discussion is pointless since you’re theorizing on the mental and emotional state of an individual you’ve never met. If you think 2010 and 2011 prove your theory…shrug…whatever. You’re a fucking moron anyway so there’s no sense engaging you any further.

    90. McMillan
      May 30th, 2013 | 11:34 am

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      It’s absolute nonsense that ERA inflates in the American League and deflates in the National League?

      It’s absolute nonsense that this fact relates to any meaningful analysis of Burnett’s performance with the New York Yankees as compared to other teams.
      MJ Recanati wrote:

      You’re a fucking moron anyway so there’s no sense engaging you any further.

      Intelligent enough to have kicked your ass in this discussion…

    91. Ricketson
      May 30th, 2013 | 12:04 pm

      Eleventh in E.R.A. is Eleventh in E.R.A. – whether it’s the N.L. or A.L. If Burnett was the same pitcher for the Yankees that he was for the Blue Jays, then why did Cashman sign him for $82.5 million and then trade him 2 years later, sending him to Pittsburgh with $16 million? If he was not the same pitcher – then why? No injuries were reported.

      Since leaving the Yankees, he’s gone 19-15 with the Pirates, and is currently eleventh in the league in E.R.A. Further, he has been characterized by individuals within M.L.B. as a “head case” that comes with a “warning label?” So for those of us that are not psychiatrists, and do not know him personally, what other conclusion can be drawn other than that he couldn’t handle pitching for the Yankees – he wouldn’t be the first player, he didn’t suffer any noteworthy injuries, and his performance has been significantly better with smaller market teams…

    92. Ricketson
      May 30th, 2013 | 12:04 pm

      Eleventh in E.R.A. is Eleventh in E.R.A. – whether it’s the N.L. or A.L. If Burnett was the same pitcher for the Yankees that he was for the Blue Jays, then why did Cashman sign him for $82.5 million and then trade him 2 years later, sending him to Pittsburgh with $16 million? If he was not the same pitcher – then why? No injuries were reported.

      Since leaving the Yankees, he’s gone 19-15 with the Pirates, and is currently eleventh in the league in E.R.A. Further, he has been characterized by individuals within M.L.B. as a “head case” that comes with a “warning label?” So for those of us that are not psychiatrists, and do not know him personally, what other conclusion can be drawn other than that he couldn’t handle pitching for the Yankees – he wouldn’t be the first player, he didn’t suffer any noteworthy injuries, and his performance has been significantly better with smaller market teams…

    93. McMillan
      May 30th, 2013 | 5:04 pm

      Ricketson wrote:

      Eleventh in E.R.A. is Eleventh in E.R.A. – whether it’s the N.L. or A.L.

      And he’s been leading the N.L. in strikeouts, but apparently that’s a function of the N.L. “tending to deflate pitching metrics” or something…

    94. Evan3457
      May 30th, 2013 | 5:48 pm

      For what it’s worth:

      From the start of Burnett’s career until his last year in Toronto, his ERA+ is 111. Kick out that nice part of a rookie along with his awful 2nd season, his ERA+ from 2001-2008 is 112. Kick out the mediocre year in 2001, and start from his first good, full season in 2002, and the ERA+ from 2002-2008 is 113.

      His ERA+ in his first year with the Yankees was 114.

      ======================================
      MJ’s point stands…if AJ’s a head case, most cases fail as free agents right from the start. They don’t wait to have a solid year in their first year in NY, pitch 3 excellent games in the post-season along with 1 mediocre one and 1 awful one, and then fold like a cheap suitcase.

      You have a better “head case” argument if you pick Whitson, or Jeff Weaver. A little less if you pick Vazquez, who gave the Yanks a good 1/2 season before folding.

    95. McMillan
      May 30th, 2013 | 8:41 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      MJ’s point stands… If AJ’s a head case… You have a better “head case” argument if you pick Whitson, or Jeff Weaver. A little less if you pick Vazquez, who gave the Yanks a good 1/2 season before folding.

      MJ’s another head case. Go back and read your own posts:
      Evan3457 wrote:

      Yeah, Burnett is something of a head case.

    96. Ricketson
      May 30th, 2013 | 8:47 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      Go back and read your own posts

      LOL!

    97. Ricketson
      May 30th, 2013 | 9:44 pm

      @ Evan3457:
      Ricketson wrote:

      … sending him to Pittsburgh with $16 million

      Correction: $20 million.

      “[H]e went to New York — and it became apparent that with Burnett, it was more a question of mental makeup…”

      After [his] first season in 2009… Burnett imploded… There seemed to be only one answer… and it was one trotted out many times over the years to explain away sudden dives in production on certain teams — some players simply cannot handle playing in a major market…

      And Burnett’s performance in Pittsburgh has only solidified the thinking that New York just was not a good match for him… It seems obvious… that Burnett is… most productive in an environment far from the cacophonic din of a major market like New York. After all, his best years have come while playing in Miami, Toronto and Pittsburgh…”

    98. Evan3457
      May 30th, 2013 | 9:45 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      MJ’s point stands… If AJ’s a head case… You have a better “head case” argument if you pick Whitson, or Jeff Weaver. A little less if you pick Vazquez, who gave the Yanks a good 1/2 season before folding.
      MJ’s another head case. Go back and read your own posts:
      Evan3457 wrote:
      Yeah, Burnett is something of a head case.

      And then post the rest of it… which was to the effect that the article you cited was written in 2010, AFTER the Yanks signed him, after it was too late. Your whole case is that Cashman or somebody should have known he was a head case and not signed him. That argument of yours was based on information not known at the time of the decision to sign him.

      So thanks for cherry picking. Got any other logical fallacies? Of course you do.

    99. Evan3457
      May 30th, 2013 | 9:48 pm

      And the overall point being this:

      Even if your argument is that AJ’s “head-caseness” became an issue, there’s nothing you can pin on Cashman for it. Nothing. Because it manifested itself starting in 2010, after Burnett helped the Yanks win a title.

    100. McMillan
      May 30th, 2013 | 10:02 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Even if your argument is that AJ’s “head-caseness” became an issue, there’s nothing you can pin on Cashman for it.

      You teach high school English?

    101. McMillan
      May 30th, 2013 | 10:04 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      And then post the rest of it… which was to the effect that the article you cited was written in 2010, AFTER the Yanks signed him, after it was too late. Your whole case is that Cashman or somebody should have known he was a head case and not signed him. That argument of yours was based on information not known at the time of the decision to sign him.

      I think you should re-read the article, or have one of your off-track students provide you with a synopsis of it…

    102. Evan3457
      May 30th, 2013 | 10:26 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      Even if your argument is that AJ’s “head-caseness” became an issue, there’s nothing you can pin on Cashman for it.
      You teach high school English?

      Nothing wrong with the English there, because I put the word in quotes, indicating that the writer knows it’s not a real word.

      Not surprised you don’t know that…

    103. Evan3457
      May 30th, 2013 | 10:34 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      And then post the rest of it… which was to the effect that the article you cited was written in 2010, AFTER the Yanks signed him, after it was too late. Your whole case is that Cashman or somebody should have known he was a head case and not signed him. That argument of yours was based on information not known at the time of the decision to sign him.

      I think you should re-read the article, or have one of your off-track students provide you with a synopsis of it…

      Thanks, already read it. There’s not a single source in that article quoting anyone saying Burnett was known to be a “head case” before the Yankees signed him in 2009, as I stated in a reply well above this one.
      The argument you made was wrong them, and it’s still wrong, months later.

    104. McMillan
      May 31st, 2013 | 6:15 am

      “There is a story that illuminates how Burnett could struggle with the Yankees for most of his three seasons in New York but flourish… in his first with [Pittsburgh] … [a]nd the tale dates back two Yankees pitching coaches… [T]he Yankees knew what was wrong with Burnett. It’s the same thing that WAS written on the WARNING label that came with him WHEN they gave him a five-year, $82.5 million deal to leave Toronto… There’s a term for this in baseball. It’s called a ‘head case.’”

    105. MJ Recanati
      May 31st, 2013 | 6:20 am

      McMillan wrote:

      Intelligent enough to have kicked your ass in this discussion…

      Not really. Nice try though.

      Troll someone else.

    106. McMillan
      May 31st, 2013 | 6:34 am

      Evan3457 wrote:

      There’s not a single source in that article quoting anyone saying Burnett was known to be a “head case” before the Yankees signed him in 2009, as I stated in a reply well above this one.
      The argument you made was wrong them, and it’s still wrong, months later.

      I’ll go with professional journalists and their sources, M.L.B. coaches and officials, etc. and information and statistics directly contradicting the statement:
      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Ah, the old “not tough enough for New York” canard.

      … before the very predictable responses of a certain high school teacher, with all due respect. But it’s nice to know that chivalry is not dead.

    107. McMillan
      May 31st, 2013 | 6:37 am

      @ MJ Recanati:
      I thought you took your marbles and went home…

    108. McMillan
      May 31st, 2013 | 6:47 am

      OldYanksFan wrote:

      Yup… some guys wilt under the heat.
      Not a lot of heat up there in Pittsburg.

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Ah, the old “not tough enough for New York” canard. If only it were that simple an explanation…

      “Report: Yankees, Pirates Trying To Close Gap In A.J. Burnett Trade”

      “[T]he Bucs believe Burnett could thrive in a low-pressure market.”

      “Pirates’ Burnett thrives after escape from Yankees”
      The consensus is that he is beneficiary of a change of scenery, mainly in leaving the stress of the Yankees… One NL personnel man echoed the theme of three executives asked about Burnett by saying the righty “is better and the reason isn’t stuff — it’s environment. Burnett is a classic small-market guy; the less the games matter the better he pitches. It’s not unlike… others who have struggled when they went to bigger markets…”

      “Former Yankees pitcher A.J. Burnett has pressure lifted with Pittsburgh Pirates”
      “In the first inning of the first game A.J. Burnett pitched at PNC Park, the first three batters reached base on a walk, a single and another walk. ‘I could imagine what that place (Yankee Stadium) would sound like, and there was about two words that came out of the crowd here, says Burnett, the ex-Yankee who is now the elder statesman of the Pirates’ staff. ‘So it’s just different. You’re a little less on edge. Some guys thrive in that.’”

      Give up yet, Ladies?

    109. McMillan
      May 31st, 2013 | 6:50 am

      @ Evan3457:
      Can’t find any articles quoting you as a source?

    110. Ricketson
      May 31st, 2013 | 10:44 am

      Evan3457 wrote:

      There’s not a single source in that article quoting anyone saying Burnett was known to be a “head case” before the Yankees signed him in 2009, as I stated in a reply well above this one. The argument you made was wrong them, and it’s still wrong, months later.

      Perhaps it wasn’t considered necessary…

      “Burnett missed [Florida's] 2003 World Series championship run… recovering from… surgery after making just four starts that season… Burnett missed a golden opportunity to prove himself on the biggest stage in baseball…

      Burnett’s reputation as a HEAD CASE would have been alleviated with a solid postseason performance. Leading the small-market Marlins to a title would have garnered Burnett all sorts of attention…

      A.J. Burnett enjoyed almost six years with [Florida] before THE FRANCHISE ASKED BURNETT TO LEAVE THE TEAM… The Marlins lost [a game] to the Braves and Burnett took exception to manager Jack McKeon’s ways, his team’s effort and the organization in general. Throwing teammates and coaches under the bus is never a good thing. It shows RED FLAGS ACROSS THE BOARD. Losing a game is one thing, but refusing to take responsibility for your part is a totally different issue…”

      Hence the “warning label…”

    111. Ricketson
      July 11th, 2013 | 7:22 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Even if your argument is that AJ’s “head-caseness” became an issue, there’s nothing you can pin on Cashman for it. Nothing. Because it manifested itself starting in 2010, after Burnett helped the Yanks win a title.

      Ricketson wrote:

      “Burnett missed [Florida's] 2003 World Series championship run… recovering from… surgery after making just four starts that season… Burnett missed a golden opportunity to prove himself on the biggest stage in baseball…Burnett’s REPUTATION as a HEAD CASE would have been alleviated with a solid postseason performance. Leading the SMALL-MARKET Marlins to a title would have garnered Burnett all sorts of attention… A.J. Burnett enjoyed almost six years with [Florida] before THE FRANCHISE ASKED BURNETT TO LEAVE THE TEAM… The Marlins lost [a game] to the Braves and Burnett took exception to manager Jack McKeon’s ways, his team’s effort and the organization in general. Throwing teammates and coaches under the bus is never a good thing. It shows RED FLAGS ACROSS THE BOARD. Losing a game is one thing, but refusing to take responsibility for your part is a totally different issue…”Hence the “warning label…”

      Ah, the old “[A] pitcher’s effort was significant in winning a title therefore if the pitcher had not been signed to a 5-year, $82.5 million contract the team would not have won with a different pitcher” canard. If only it were that simple an explanation…
      And because his “head-caseness” manifested itself well before 2010, as documented above, it can, and should, be pinned on John Cashman’s son.

    112. McMillan
      September 29th, 2013 | 12:01 pm

      @ Raf:
      @ MJ Recanati:
      @ Evan3457:
      McMillan wrote:

      For the years 2006-13, Burnett’s 3 worst years were registered with the $82.5 mil. contract Cashman gave this head case to pitch in a situation he couldn’t handle (2009-2011) in N.Y…

      Ricketson wrote:

      Burnett’s pitching to a 2.57 E.R.A. in Pittsburgh at the end of May.

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Which doesn’t prove that he couldn’t pitch in New York since we already know that his home ERA was better than his road ERA as a member of the Yankees.

      Ricketson wrote:

      No one was talking about his home ERA vs. his road ERA – he did not have the psychological makeup to pitch in a media environment such as New York for a team like the Yankees at home or on the road, as compared to another market such as Toronto or Pittsburgh – at home or on the road.

      He’s doing pretty well in Pittsburgh…

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      You’re a fucking moron…

      Evan3457 wrote:

      MJ’s point stands…

      New York Yankees Should Not Trade A.J. Burnett for Nothing

      Feb., 2012: “… We also cannot predict injuries and Phil Hughes’ performance. If there is a long-term injury in the starting rotation or Hughes shows that he cannot start in the Major Leagues, then you have Burnett there to fill in.

      … all it takes is an injury or two and you are searching for someone to hold down the fort in the fourth and fifth slots of the rotation.

      … we are talking about the Yankees, not a payroll limited team. The Yankees should not be in the business of dumping salary for nothing. Especially when the contract ends after the 2013 season and the luxury tax level does not rise until 2014.

      It just does not make baseball sense.”

      Pittsburgh Pirates Are a Major Force to Be Reckoned with

      Jul., 2013: “… This staff is led by a REFRESHED A.J. Burnett. With a 12-3 record and a very respectable 3.52 ERA, Burnett has all but PUT HIS STRUGGLES AS A NEW YORK YANKEE BEHIND HIM…”

      Pittsburgh Pirates: 7 Reasons the Bucs Can Still Win the Wild Card

      Aug., 2013: “… McDonald and A.J. Burnett have had their recent issues, they are capable of winning pitchers’ duels and/or beating elite offenses [in September and October] because they have ace-quality stuff…”

      A.J. Burnett-led Pirates upend Reds, take wild card lead

      Sep., 2013: ” PITTSBURGH — [The head case] walked into the Pittsburgh dugout after falling two runs down to Cincinnati… when his catcher decided it was time for a little pep talk.

      ‘I told him, “That’s all we’re giving up today,” and he said, “Yes sir,”‘ Russell Martin [the former New York Yankee catcher replaced by .207-hitting Chris Stewart in New York] said. ‘That’s his attitude. If you give up a couple, it’s not the end of the world…’

      Something the VETERAN ACE and his resilient club do better than just about anyone else in baseball.

      … Pittsburgh responded behind Burnett, who scattered four hits in seven strong innings to lift the Pirates to a 4-2 win and a one-game lead… for the top spot in the NL wild-card race.

      ‘Go out, it’s a big game, it’s a big series, you want to attack,’ Burnett said. ‘We were able to do that and get through seven somehow. I felt like I got stronger as it went on.’

      Burnett struck out a season-high 12 against three walks and became the first right-hander in the 126-year history of the franchise to top 200 strikeouts in a season…

      ‘The story of the game is we didn’t score enough runs,’ Reds manager Dusty Baker said. ‘We just couldn’t get much going against [the head case]. We got some runs early, then he settled down.’

      … Pittsburgh reduced its magic number to three behind Burnett…”

      Pirates’ General Manager discusses playoff rotation, re-signing A.J. Burnett

      Sep., 2013: “The Pirates are very interested in bringing A.J. back next season; BURNETT WOULD LIKE TO FINISH HIS CAREER [IN PITTSBURGH].

      … [Pittsburgh] seems open to bringing in a backup for Russell Martin next year [and the club has not been reported to have an interest in trading for Francisco Cervelli, Chris Stewart, or Austin Romine].

      … Huntington strongly hinted that the club will carry four starters if they reach a divisional series. A.J. Burnett, Francisco Liriano, Gerrit Cole and Charlie Morton seem to be locks.”

      A.J. Burnett’s Pittsburgh Renaissance

      Sep., 2013: “The Pittsburgh Pirates’ success this year has been analyzed from a variety of angles, and one of the more fascinating aspects of it… is an enhanced use of infield shifts based on spray-chart data.

      … [the head case] was recently quoted in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review as saying, “I have a problem with (expletive) shifts.”

      There’s a bit of irony here because no pitcher has benefited more from the Bucs’ use of shifts than Burnett, who has been REBORN IN PITTSBURGH over the past two seasons, and pitched one of the best games of his career on Friday night, shutting down the Reds over eight innings in a 4-1 victory…”

    113. Evan3457
      September 29th, 2013 | 3:05 pm

      So, he’s still a head case in Pittsburgh, or he isn’t?

    114. McMillan
      September 29th, 2013 | 8:08 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      So, he’s still a head case in Pittsburgh, or he isn’t?

      @ Evan3457:
      He’ll always be a head case – a head case more comfortable pitching in a small market, and certainly more comfortable pitching anywhere other than New York.

    115. McMillan
      September 29th, 2013 | 10:58 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Then why did he pitch better for the Yankees in NY than he did for them on the road?

      @ Raf:
      Why don’t you try ruminating about Brian Cashman’s sex life? Baseball seems to be a bit out of your depth.

    116. Evan3457
      September 30th, 2013 | 1:34 am

      McMillan wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      So, he’s still a head case in Pittsburgh, or he isn’t?
      @ Evan3457:
      He’ll always be a head case – a head case more comfortable pitching in a small market, and certainly more comfortable pitching anywhere other than New York.

      But if he happens to help the Pirates win a title, and I would rate the chance of that to be pretty small, does it matter if he’s a head case or not? He’d have two rings.

    117. McMillan
      September 30th, 2013 | 6:16 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      But if he happens to help the Pirates win a title, and I would rate the chance of that to be pretty small, does it matter if he’s a head case or not? He’d have two rings.

      Evan3457 wrote:

      But if he happens to help the Pirates win a title, and I would rate the chance of that to be pretty small, does it matter if he’s a head case or not? He’d have two rings.

      If Burnett happens to win a title, Brian “God help the rest of baseball” Cashman will have at least contributed to one World Championship winner, paying $8.5 million of Burnett’s 2013 salary to pitch in Pittsburgh.

    118. Evan3457
      September 30th, 2013 | 10:47 pm

      McMillan wrote:

      If Burnett happens to win a title, Brian “God help the rest of baseball” Cashman will have at least contributed to one World Championship winner, paying $8.5 million of Burnett’s 2013 salary to pitch in Pittsburgh.

      Neatly evaded.

    119. McMillan
      September 30th, 2013 | 11:04 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Neatly evaded.

      @ Evan3457:
      I answered your question in earlier posts.

    120. Evan3457
      October 1st, 2013 | 1:31 am

      McMillan wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      Neatly evaded.
      @ Evan3457:
      I answered your question in earlier posts.

      OK, then he’ll be a head case with one ring.
      Unless the Pirates win in it all. Then he’ll be a head case with two rings.

    121. Mr. October
      October 1st, 2013 | 2:25 pm

      @ Evan3457:
      Burnett has an exceptional amount of talent from the neck down; the problem with Burnett since his time with Florida has been from the neck up. A GM can’t consider the talent of a player from the neck down only.

      The Yankees’ General Meathead (dead from the neck up) should have considered Burnett’s psychological makeup, reputation, etc., before offering him an $82.5MM contract to pitch in the most difficult environment in professional sports – an environment Burnett conceded he could not handle from the neck up after he was finally sent to Pittsburgh.

      Evan3457 wrote:

      But if he happens to help the Pirates win a title, and I would rate the chance of that to be pretty small, does it matter if he’s a head case or not? He’d have two rings.

      @ Evan3457:
      To answer your question: it should not matter at all to Pittsburgh that Burnett can not handle pitching for the New York Yankees or the New York Mets.
      Why would that matter to Huntingotn or the Pirates – especially with Cashman paying half of Burnett’s salary?

    122. McMillan
      October 9th, 2013 | 4:57 pm

      OldYanksFan wrote:

      … some guys wilt under the heat.

      … You could see it when [Burnett] was here.

      He would sail along…. but as soon as guys got on base, he would implode.

      He was the Anti-Pettitte.

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Ah, the old “not tough enough for New York” canard. If only it were that simple an explanation…

      Ricketson wrote:

      Burnett has great stuff, but he was not well-suited for New York and as such came with a “warning label,” and was yet another Cashman bust…

      Raf wrote:

      @ Ricketson:
      Then why did [Burnett] pitch better for the Yankees in NY than he did for them on the road?

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      @ McMillan:
      You’re [f-ing morons]… so there’s no sense engaging you any further.

      Evan3457 wrote:

      MJ’s point stands…if AJ’s a head case, most cases (sic) fail…

      Oct. 4, 2013:

      “Cardinals Beat Up on A.J. Burnett, Pirates to Take Game 1 of NLDS With 9-1 Win

      Burnett gave up seven earned runs on six hits before being pulled in the third inning… It was not new territory for Burnett. The starter had been roughed up like this in a postseason game before, so he did not spend much time agonizing over his implosion on the mound…

      ‘The bad thing about it is that it’s happened before,’ said Burnett, comparing his meltdown… to his disastrous pitching for the Yankees in Game 5 of the 2009 World Series…

      … [It] was the fourth time in Burnett’s last six playoff starts that he had allowed five or more runs. It was the second time in his last four playoff starts that he was pulled in the third before getting an out. The last time was when he was in the Bronx, pitching Game 5 of the 2009 World Series when he gave up six runs in two-plus innings.

      So Burnett had some experience in getting over a postseason blow-out. ‘I know I’ll just get ready to take the ball again,’ Burnett said…

      … ‘if I get the chance.’”

      Oct. 9, 2013:

      “Pirates Make Cold (and Correct) Call in Picking Cole over Burnett

      A week ago, it would have been preposterous to suggest Pittsburgh might bypass their most veteran starting pitcher in favor of a 22-year-old rookie in a winner-take-all elimination game in the playoffs. After all, A.J. Burnett led the Pirates in innings pitched and strikeouts in each of the past two [regular] seasons…

      But that was before Burnett imploded against St. Louis in Game 1 of the National League Division Series… reviving memories of his past postseason meltdowns…”

      @ Evan3457:

      “… October isn’t at all like the rest of the year… Regular-season protocol doesn’t matter in October, nor do the feelings of [Burnett].”

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