• Cashman Excuse Machine In Mid-Season Form Already

    Posted by on April 12th, 2014 · Comments (54)

    Via Bryan Hoch -

    With first baseman Mark Teixeira and closer David Robertson on the 15-day disabled list, manager Joe Girardi has been using Kelly Johnson as the regular first baseman while leaning mostly upon Shawn Kelley to close out games in the ninth inning.

    Cashman said that after the Yankees spent hundreds of millions on free-agent imports like Masahiro Tanaka, Brian McCann, Jacoby Ellsbury and Carlos Beltran, there was just not enough budgetary room to prepare for every possible scenario.

    “I think we were very open about our intentions,” Cashman said. “We wanted to fix as much as we could, but acknowledged that we couldn’t fix everything that needed to be addressed. That’s with the money we were in position to spend as well as the available talent. The better talent was really heavily in favor of the outfield rather than the infield.

    “I don’t have any regrets. We pulled down the players that we targeted and we were open with the infield and the bullpen would be unanswered questions that everyone would need to stay tuned with as a developing story. It’s the same verbiage I used in the winter time.”

    …we couldn’t fix everything that needed to be addressed…

    And, who hasn’t done their job correctly for years now, bringing cause for things needed to be fixed? ¡Ay, caramba!

    Comments on Cashman Excuse Machine In Mid-Season Form Already

    1. Mr. October
      April 12th, 2014 | 1:34 pm

      Steve L. wrote:

      And, who hasn’t done their job correctly for years now, bringing cause for things needed to be fixed?

      The highest-paid G.M. in MLB for years now…

      Pricey upgrades producing lifeless Bombers offense

      “… This is not your 1998 Yankees team. As the roster is currently constructed, even taking the leap of faith that Teixeira can return and produce, they won’t field threats from one through nine. They’ll need the heart of their order to provide coverage for the bottom.
      ‘Offenses can do this, go up and down,’ [Kelly] Johnson said. ‘When it comes, I think it’s going to come in bunches and make up for it.’
      If it doesn’t? Well, what are they going to do? Spend another $200-plus million next winter to fix it?

      http://nypost.com/2014/04/12/pricy-upgrades-producing-lifeless-bombers-offense/

      If it doesn’t, well, John Cashman Jr.’s son, Brian, will still get a contract extension from the Steinbrenner family.

    2. Evan3457
      April 12th, 2014 | 4:50 pm

      …and the lifeless offense hits 5 home runs and beats the Sox 7-4. Lackey doesn’t like pitching at the Stadium, I guess.

      Well, it’s early in the season.

    3. Evan3457
      April 12th, 2014 | 5:34 pm

      Oh…

      Q: Which team in the AL East had scored no more than two runs more than the Yankees’ lifeless offense before today’s games?

      A: All of them. The Orioles had 41 runs in 11 games before today, including their 14 run outburst on Tuesday. The Jays and Red Sox had 40. The Rays had the exact same 39 runs as the Yankees.

      It’s early in the season.

    4. Mr. October
      April 12th, 2014 | 6:10 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Orioles

      $107 million payroll.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      Jays

      $138 million payroll.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      Red Sox

      $164 million payroll.
      Evan3457 wrote:

      Rays.

      $77 million payroll. A $77 million team might have lost one of the top starters in the A.L. to an injury, but the $204-11 million team will congratulate itself for beating the $77 million team by one game to secure a wildcard playoff game or fifth and final playoff spot in an expanded postseason format adopted in 2012…
      Evan3457 wrote:

      It’s early in the season.

      Not the 2005-13 seasons…

      2005-2013 have already been played; the results: more than $2 billion in payroll spent to play in only ten (10) A.L.C.S. games – 10 games in 8 years, with Team Cashman winning only four (4) of them – more than $2 billion in payroll spent, and a 4-6 record in only ten (10) A.L.C.S. games played, and one (1) AL Pennant . It would have been a very different story from 2005-13 with a true G.M.:


      “Lexington, Ky. – The family of George Steinbrenner… has purchased a piece of the 125-year old Red Mile harness track… officials called it a ‘substantial investment…’ ‘I think it’s terrific for harness racing…’ Red Mile president John Cashman said… Cashman said Steinbrenner’s wife, Joan, his two daughters, Jessica Molloy and Jennifer Swindal, and his son-in-law Steve Swindal bought the stock… The Steinbrenners made their investment after The Red Mile offered to sell $2 million in stock last fall… Cashman said he approached Steinbrenner, asking whether his family would be interested in investing in The Red Mile… Steinbrenner is a ‘very good friend’ who has been at The Red Mile, and who has bought horses at the sales there and from Castleton Farm, which Cashman operates….”

      “… In the first meeting [with Mr. Steinbrenner, he] arrived at an auction of trotters and pacers in Lexington… where he was asked by a longtime acquaintance, John Cashman, to join him at Steinbrenner’s table. Cashman, a fixture in horse racing circles, was the father of Brian Cashman, who was only a few years away from being named the Yankees’ general manager…”

    5. Mr. October
      April 12th, 2014 | 6:48 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      2005-2013 have already been played; the results: more than $2 billion in payroll spent to play in only ten (10) A.L.C.S. games – 10 games in 8 years, with Team Cashman winning only four (4) of them

      Correction: nine years; even better. Brian Cashman has been averaging 1.11 A.L.C.S. games played a year for almost 10 years while outspending every other franchise by hundreds of millions-of-dollars and winning only 1 pennant. What a great record – and in 2014, the franchise has one of the least productive farm systems in MLB and it’s “there was just not enough budgetary room to prepare for every possible scenario” from the Senior Vice President and general moron of the organization who would “love to” come back in 2015…

      I hope Cashman decides to come back; hopefully Hal, Hank, Joan, Jessica, Jennifer, etc. make him a good offer – he’d be hard to replace: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/kooky-cashman-claim-yanks-gm-plotted-mistress-suit-claims-article-1.1235442

    6. Evan3457
      April 12th, 2014 | 8:41 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      Orioles
      $107 million payroll.
      Evan3457 wrote:
      Jays
      $138 million payroll.
      Evan3457 wrote:
      Red Sox
      $164 million payroll.
      Evan3457 wrote:
      Rays.
      $77 million payroll. A $77 million team might have lost one of the top starters in the A.L. to an injury, but the $204-11 million team will congratulate itself for beating the $77 million team by one game to secure a wildcard playoff game or fifth and final playoff spot in an expanded postseason format adopted in 2012…
      Evan3457 wrote:
      It’s early in the season.
      Not the 2005-13 seasons…
      2005-2013 have already been played; the results: more than $2 billion in payroll spent to play in only ten (10) A.L.C.S. games – 10 games in 8 years, with Team Cashman winning only four (4) of them – more than $2 billion in payroll spent, and a 4-6 record in only ten (10) A.L.C.S. games played, and one (1) AL Pennant . It would have been a very different story from 2005-13 with a true G.M.:

      “Lexington, Ky. – The family of George Steinbrenner… has purchased a piece of the 125-year old Red Mile harness track… officials called it a ‘substantial investment…’ ‘I think it’s terrific for harness racing…’ Red Mile president John Cashman said… Cashman said Steinbrenner’s wife, Joan, his two daughters, Jessica Molloy and Jennifer Swindal, and his son-in-law Steve Swindal bought the stock… The Steinbrenners made their investment after The Red Mile offered to sell $2 million in stock last fall… Cashman said he approached Steinbrenner, asking whether his family would be interested in investing in The Red Mile… Steinbrenner is a ‘very good friend’ who has been at The Red Mile, and who has bought horses at the sales there and from Castleton Farm, which Cashman operates….”
      “… In the first meeting [with Mr. Steinbrenner, he] arrived at an auction of trotters and pacers in Lexington… where he was asked by a longtime acquaintance, John Cashman, to join him at Steinbrenner’s table. Cashman, a fixture in horse racing circles, was the father of Brian Cashman, who was only a few years away from being named the Yankees’ general manager…”

      And all of this is completely irrelevant to my point, which is, as the season is 12 games old, it’s way, way too early to make judgment about what this team will be.

      You took Davidoff’s article, and declared victory. How silly.

    7. Mr. October
      April 12th, 2014 | 9:40 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      And all of this is completely irrelevant to my point, which is, as the season is 12 games old, it’s way, way too early to make judgment about what this team will be.

      @ Evan3457:
      The title of this thread is “Cashman Excuse Machine In Mid-Season Form Already.”

      So, evidently, someone doesn’t agree with your “point” that “as the season is 12 games old, it’s way, way too early” to make excuses for this team, such as “… we couldn’t fix everything that needed to be addressed. That’s with the money we were in position to spend as well as the available talent.”

      If Tampa Bay loses Moore and finishes with 88 wins, and Team Cashman finishes with 89 wins, are we going to hear from all of the same people from 2008 and 2013 who said that Team Cashman failed to make the playoffs “because of injuries” that Team Cashman “succeeded in making the playoffs in 2014 because of injuries to the Rays’ staff?” Not likely…

      It’s not too early to make a judgment about what this team should be as of April, 2014 given the financial resources spent from 2005-March, 2014 – it’s not too early at all… Why were there so many “needs to be addressed,” with all of the money spent since 2005? Because of Lonn Trost? I thought this organization believed it could field a “championship-caliber” team for less than $189 million only last year, or a short time ago, with Brian Cashman as the G.M.?

    8. KPOcala
      April 12th, 2014 | 10:55 pm

      Amazing that ESPN (especially the once sour “spokesman” for the Red Sox) has made baseball fans believe that “how much money spent” is somehow a “modifier”. Or, it “Could” be, that this same “mind-set” is really one of the “stepping stones” of a salary cap. Which will benefit who? The fans who come to watch ownership “manage”? Or just another group of gangsters who get an “exemption” for, among other things, collusion? And Cashman is undoubtedly the “mastermind” of this 25 plus year plan……….. Bottom line, if you are a fan, why in the hell do you care if ownership spends plenty? I can understand the fans of teams who pocket the proceeds. But this other mentality is “Pretzel Logic”. Oh, and a Crusade for fidelity…

    9. LMJ229
      April 12th, 2014 | 11:23 pm

      Brian Cashman took over a very talented, championship caliber team in the late 1990′s that was built by his predecessors. I think it is fair to say that the teams Cashman has built lately are a far cry from those championship teams. But how many teams win 4 championships in 5 years? It is nearly unheard of. Maybe it’s just wrong to hold him to those high standards.

      Cashman supporters will say Cashman deserves credit for building a playoff team nearly every year. Cashman haters will point out that the playoffs are not the goal – a championship is – and with all the money he spends every year the team should be winning championships, not getting bounced out in the first round.

      Personally, I’m not a Cashman fan. I hate the fact that he never plans for the future and I think that is an important part of a GM’s job. He is always just plugging holes. Just look at the roster. If your roof leaks you can plug the holes all you want but that doesn’t make it a good roof. Cashman’s teams might make the playoffs due to all the money he spends but that doesn’t necessarily make them a good team.

    10. Raf
      April 13th, 2014 | 12:29 am

      Evan3457 wrote:

      How silly.

      But consistent.

      KPOcala wrote:

      Amazing that ESPN (especially the once sour “spokesman” for the Red Sox) has made baseball fans believe that “how much money spent” is somehow a “modifier”.

      The only “baseball fans” that regularly post here who’ve put much stock in $$ spent is the blog owner who has confirmed that he’s anti-Cashman and a poster who up until two months ago posted under a variety of screen names until asked to stop.

      LMJ229 wrote:

      I hate the fact that [Cashman] never plans for the future and I think that is an important part of a GM’s job.

      You don’t think the Pineda trade was made with the future in mind? It’s only but one example.

    11. redbug
      April 13th, 2014 | 6:53 am

      @ Raf: LMJ229 wrote:

      I hate the fact that [Cashman] never plans for the future and I think that is an important part of a GM’s job.

      You don’t think the Pineda trade was made with the future in mind? It’s only but one example.”

      I think LMJ might have been referring to the lack of talent in home grown players. The 90′s teams were perfect combo’s of homegrown, trades and free agents.

      With very few exceptions, Cano is one, the Yanks haven’t had quality homegrown players under Cashman. Impact players have had to be bought.

    12. Raf
      April 13th, 2014 | 10:39 am

      redbug wrote:

      I think LMJ might have been referring to the lack of talent in home grown players.

      If a player posts a .300-30-100 season, does it matter if they’re homegrown, if they were traded for or if they were signed as a FA?

      The Yankees have Murphy and Sanchez in the minors. They had Montero. They signed McCann and Russel Martin anyway. Posada was blocked by Girardi.

      Nick Johnson was ready to be the primary 1B, when Giambi was signed. Mike Lowell was ready to be the primary 3B, when Scott Brosius was re-signed. Cano was blocked by Tony Womack.

      The Yankees have had talent in the minors, they’ve chosen to go with name players, for any number of reasons.

    13. Mr. October
      April 13th, 2014 | 2:52 pm

      No one is holding Cashman to a standard of building the best system in baseball like the one he inherited in 1998; few GMs could accomplish what Michael did. If Friedman was named the GM of the New York Yankees tomorrow, no reasonable person would hold him to the standards of 1990-2000…

      Raf wrote:

      If a player posts a .300-30-100 season, does it matter if they’re homegrown, if they were traded for or if they were signed as a FA?

      Actually, it does…
      Raf wrote:

      They signed McCann and Russel Martin anyway.

      They signed McCann to the richest contract for a free agent catcher in history because, despite the fact that Posada played from 1995-2011 and retired at age 40, there was not enough talent in the system to acquire a replacement via trade, or to promote as a replacement. Team Cashman is now restricted by another expensive contract for a player in decline for years to come, along with Sabathia, Teixieira, etc.
      Raf wrote:

      Mike Lowell was ready to be the primary 3B

      Whom did Cashman acquire for Lowell, again?

      “… Noel and Johnson both never made it to the Yankees, and Yarnall had all of three starts for the Yankees.

      What did Lowell do?

      Besides being one of the best third baseman in baseball for the last 10 years, he [was] a four-time All Star, silver slugger and gold glove winner, and [won] two World Series championships, one with Florida (2003) and the other with Boston (2007)…”

      From refusing to attempt to sign Randy Johnson to a contract extension in Jul., 1998, to trading Lowell for Noel, Johnson, and Yarnell in 1998-99, Cashman wasted no time in bringing this franchise down once he inherited one of the best systems in MLB history in Feb., 1998. But what would you expect from this guy: http://deadspin.com/5845246/the-cashman-photos/

      Raf wrote:

      Cano was blocked by Tony Womack.

      That would explain why Cashman tried to trade Cano for the 41-year old Randy Johnson and the 42-year old Jamie Moyer in 2004…
      Raf wrote:

      The Yankees have had talent in the minors, they’ve chosen to go with name players, for any number of reasons.

      What talent? If Team Cashman has had talent in the minors from 2005-2013, then where did it all go? Was it abducted by aliens?

      @ Raf:
      Thanks for the laugh…

      Mantle-Maris-Skowron-Howard-Richardson-Ford were The New York Yankees; Jackson-Piniella-Nettles-Munson-Randolph-Guidry were The New York Yankees; Williams-O’Neill-Posada-Martinez-Jeter-Pettitte-Rivera were The New York Yankees.

      Beltran-Ellsbury-Soriano-McCann-Roberts-Solarte-Pineda is Team Cashman.

    14. Evan3457
      April 13th, 2014 | 3:53 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      And all of this is completely irrelevant to my point, which is, as the season is 12 games old, it’s way, way too early to make judgment about what this team will be.
      @ Evan3457:
      The title of this thread is “Cashman Excuse Machine In Mid-Season Form Already.”
      So, evidently, someone doesn’t agree with your “point” that “as the season is 12 games old, it’s way, way too early” to make excuses for this team, such as “… we couldn’t fix everything that needed to be addressed. That’s with the money we were in position to spend as well as the available talent.”
      If Tampa Bay loses Moore and finishes with 88 wins, and Team Cashman finishes with 89 wins, are we going to hear from all of the same people from 2008 and 2013 who said that Team Cashman failed to make the playoffs “because of injuries” that Team Cashman “succeeded in making the playoffs in 2014 because of injuries to the Rays’ staff?” Not likely…
      It’s not too early to make a judgment about what this team should be as of April, 2014 given the financial resources spent from 2005-March, 2014 – it’s not too early at all… Why were there so many “needs to be addressed,” with all of the money spent since 2005? Because of Lonn Trost? I thought this organization believed it could field a “championship-caliber” team for less than $189 million only last year, or a short time ago, with Brian Cashman as the G.M.?

      And this is completely irrelevant to my point, which was not about the title of this thread, but your response to it, which was to link an article calling the Yankee offense lifeless.

      And my point was that it’s way too early to judge what this team will or won’t be. I described making such and early judgment as silly. You continue to make that premature it in this reply to my reply, and it’s still just as silly the second time.

      As for Moore and the Rays, one injury to one starting pitcher is not equal to all the players the Yanks lost last season, some of them more than once, and for long periods of time. So no, the correct conclusion would be that they were not similar.

      Now, if the Rays lost every one of their key hitters except for Longoria for large stretches of the season, then that might be similar, and then it would be justified to compare the two seasons.

    15. Evan3457
      April 13th, 2014 | 4:32 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      No one is holding Cashman to a standard of building the best system in baseball like the one he inherited in 1998; few GMs could accomplish what Michael did. If Friedman was named the GM of the New York Yankees tomorrow, no reasonable person would hold him to the standards of 1990-2000…

      In 1998, when Cashman took over the organization, it is dubious that they were the top farm system in baseball.

      Baseball America’s 1998 Top 100 had 3 Yankees in it, none ranked higher than 46th (Ricky Ledee). Mike Lowell and Nick Johnson were in the system at that time, but Lowell was 71st, and Johnson didn’t make the top 100 until the next year. The 3rd Yankee in the top 100 was Jackson Melian, who never made it.

      Among the teams who could be reasonably argued to have had a better farm system at the time were the Athletics (Ben Grieve, Miguel Tejada, Eric Chavez and A.J. Hinch all rated higher than Ledee, plus Ramon Hernadez, plus Chris Enochs at #100 who never made it), the Dodgers (who had Paul Konerko and Adrian Beltre ranked #2-3 in the top 100, and pitchers Mike Judd and Dennis Reyes below Ledee), the Pirates (who had Aramis Ramirez, Kris Benson and Chad Hermansen in the top 15, plus two others in the top 100), the Astros (who had Richard Hidlago and Scott Elarton rated higher than Ledee, as well as Lance Berkman, Wade Miller and Daryl Ward in the top 100), the Expos (who had Carl Pavano and Brad Fullmer rated above Ledee, as well as Javier Vasquez and Orlando Cabrera in the top 100), the Rockies (who had Todd Helton at #10, and four others in the top 100, including Shawn Chacon).

      In addition, the following teams had 3 or 4 prospects in the top 100: the Marlins, the Indians, the Tigers, the Twins (including David Ortiz), the Braves, the Rangers, the Red Sox, the Mets, and the Blue Jays (including Roy Halladay and Vernon Wells).

      So while it can be said that the Yankees had at least an average farm system in 1998, it certainly can’t be said they had the best farm system at that time.

      Thanks for the laugh…
      Mantle-Maris-Skowron-Howard-Richardson-Ford were The New York Yankees; Jackson-Piniella-Nettles-Munson-Randolph-Guidry were The New York Yankees; Williams-O’Neill-Posada-Martinez-Jeter-Pettitte-Rivera were The New York Yankees.
      Beltran-Ellsbury-Soriano-McCann-Roberts-Solarte-Pineda is Team Cashman.

      Why would Jackson-Piniella-Nettles-Munson-Randolph-Guidry be “The New York Yankees”, but not “Beltran-Ellsbury-Soriano-McCann-Roberts-Solarte-Pineda”?
      You do realize that only two (Munson, Guidry) of the six players you named from the 70′s teams were products of the Yankee farm system, right? They also had Roy White, and in 1978, Jim Beattie, but of the teams that won the titles, they also had Gossage, Gullett and Hunter (free agents), plus Chambliss, Figueroa, Rivers, Dent, Blair, Healy, Tidrow, Lyle, Rivers, Johnson, who were acquired in trades.

      The 1977 team had 13 WAR (out of 53) from their farm system. In spite of Guidry’s Cy Young year in 1978, the total was slightly lower (out of 51 WAR total), because Munson and White both dropped substantially. This current Yankee team will likely produce a similar WAR total from its farm system.

      Or is the sole criteria of “Real Yankee-ism” whether or not they win the title, or the pennant, or wherever you choose to set the bar so as to make your anti-Cashman case?

    16. KPOcala
      April 13th, 2014 | 5:22 pm

      @ Mr. October:”Mantle-Maris-Skowron-Howard-Richardson-Ford were The New York Yankees; Jackson-Piniella-Nettles-Munson-Randolph-Guidry were The New York Yankees; Williams-O’Neill-Posada-Martinez-Jeter-Pettitte-Rivera were The New York Yankees”. Really????!!!!! The first group had one “import”, Maris, along with some other key players. They weren’t home grown, like your narrative, and I’m sure that minor leaguers weren’t used to help acquire them. Then the “seventies team”. Only Munson and Guidry were “home-grown”. The nineties group, you can drop O’Neil and Martinez, and don’t forget all the “free agents” that were brought in to cement the team. And that silly “narrative” that you have with “Stick” being the architect while George was suspended. Please, huh? (Yeah, you didn’t “say” all of that, in this thread, but you have when it’s convenient, and it was alluded to, in this thread). I am, agnostic on Cashman, not knowing what his bosses say. And when he was given his “autonomy” he was lauded in industry circles as getting the “best people” for the most important jobs in player development. Wasn’t Nardi Contreras supposed to be the MAN? And wasn’t he lauded for coming in and making his “ninja moves” scooping coveted free agents out of nowhere? And for all the “questionable drafts choices” that were made under Cashman’s watch, I can submit quite a list of Epstein “can’t miss” minor leaguers, for that matter, Neal Huntington, was only a few years ago considered to be a notch above an “idiot”. You have a selective memory when it suits your “raison d’etre”, but that memory gets oh so dim, when you do any real “comparisons” with Cashman’s peers. Again, if Cashman were canned tomorrow, I won’t lose sleep, or even think a hell of a lot about it. At least pretend to have some “objectivity”. But, good gawd man, there must be some FB “friends” you can troll. Or maybe read a good book……..

    17. Raf
      April 13th, 2014 | 7:07 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      Actually, it does…

      No, it doesn’t.

      Mr. October wrote:

      They signed McCann to the richest contract for a free agent catcher in history because, despite the fact that Posada played from 1995-2011 and retired at age 40, there was not enough talent in the system to acquire a replacement via trade, or to promote as a replacement.

      @ redbug:
      See what I mean? Apparently Mr. October has forgotten that JR Murphy’s in the system. How can one have a conversation with someone like this, whose memory is obviously faulty in matters other than Brian Cashman’s sex life. Maybe that explains why he would have conversations with himself under a number of handles?

      http://waswatching.com/2013/08/24/trolls-such/
      http://waswatching.com/2014/02/02/house-cleaning/

      How sad… Anyway, the Yankees could’ve gone with Murphy and Cervelli as the catchers for the 2014 season, but chose not to go that route for whatever reason.

      These were the catchers that were available this past offseason;

      Chris Snyder BAL C 33 1 yr Signed with Nationals (minor league deal w/ ST invite)
      Jarrod Saltalamacchia BOS C 29 1 yr/$4.5M (13) Signed with Marlins (3 years, $21 million)
      Kelly Shoppach CLE C 34 1 yr/$1.5M (13)
      Brayan Pena DET C 32 1 yr/$875k (13) Signed with Reds (2 years)
      Kurt Suzuki OAK C 30 3yrs/$15.65M (11-13) Signed with Twins (1 year, $2.5 million)
      Humberto Quintero SEA C 34 1 yr/$900k (13) Re-signed with Mariners (minor league deal wi/ ST invite)
      Jose Molina TBR C 39 2 yrs/$3M (12-13) Re-signed with Rays (2 years, $4.5 million)
      A.J. Pierzynski TEX C 37 1 yr/$7.5M (13) Signed with Red Sox (1 year, $8.25 million)
      Geovany Soto TEX C 31 1 yr/$2.75M (13) Re-signed with Rangers (1 year, $3.05 million)
      Wil Nieves ARZ C 36 1 yr/$800k (13) Signed with Phillies (1 year, $1.125 million)
      Brian McCann ATL C 30 7 yrs/$41.3M (07-13) Signed with Yankees (5 years, $85 million with vesting option for 2019)
      Dioner Navarro CHC C 30 1 yr/$1.75M (13) Signed with Blue Jays (2 years, $8 million)
      Yorvit Torrealba COL C 35 1 yr/$1M (13) Signed minor league contract with spring training invite with Angels.
      Carlos Ruiz PHI C 35 4 yrs/$13.35M (10-13) Re-signed with Phillies (3 years, $26 million with team option for 2017)
      John Buck PIT C 33 3 yrs/$18M (11-13) Signed with Mariners (1 year, $1 million)

      Instead of signing McCann, the Yankees could’ve gone with any other option. If they felt Murphy would need another season @ AAA, they could’ve signed one of the catchers listed above for a year or two, all the while breaking Murphy in.

    18. Raf
      April 13th, 2014 | 7:14 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      As for Moore and the Rays, one injury to one starting pitcher is not equal to all the players the Yanks lost last season, some of them more than once, and for long periods of time. So no, the correct conclusion would be that they were not similar.

      http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304795804579097811836977506

    19. Evan3457
      April 13th, 2014 | 7:21 pm

      Raf wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      As for Moore and the Rays, one injury to one starting pitcher is not equal to all the players the Yanks lost last season, some of them more than once, and for long periods of time. So no, the correct conclusion would be that they were not similar.
      http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304795804579097811836977506

      But how can the loss of a player who never had a prime hurt a team, much less hurt the Yankees “the most”?

    20. #15
      April 14th, 2014 | 10:34 am

      All this aside, we came within a couple of bad pitches by CC of sweeping the Botox. We are better than them this year. When was the last time we beat them on a Sunday night broadcast????

    21. Mr. October
      April 14th, 2014 | 1:08 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      Amazing that ESPN (especially the once sour “spokesman” for the Red Sox) has made baseball fans believe that “how much money spent” is somehow a “modifier”. Or, it “Could” be, that this same “mind-set” is really one of the “stepping stones” of a salary cap. Which will benefit who? The fans who come to watch ownership “manage”? Or just another group of gangsters who get an “exemption” for, among other things, collusion? And Cashman is undoubtedly the “mastermind” of this 25 plus year plan……….. Bottom line, if you are a fan, why in the hell do you care if ownership spends plenty? I can understand the fans of teams who pocket the proceeds. But this other mentality is “Pretzel Logic”. Oh, and a Crusade for fidelity…

      Would it be possible to have this post translated into English?

    22. Mr. October
      April 14th, 2014 | 1:09 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      … Cashman, and only Cashman, is an idiot.

      Agreed.

      “… Cashman’s father, John Cashman, managed Kentucky’s Castleton Farms. The senior Cashman became friendly with George Steinbrenner, and his son Brian started working for the Yankees.

      Cashman and Torre increasingly disagreed with each other after the last world championship. With his 2005 contract, Cashman gained complete control of player decisions. He started to depend on computer statistics, sabermetrics and trying to emulate [Boston's] approach to winning…

      Cashman explained in Appel’s book why his approach was needed. ‘People used to think it was okay to smoke, or okay to drink during pregnancy. We learn as we go forward.’

      Hey, how many pregnant Yankees have you seen lately, Mr. Cashman?

      Torre listened, but wasn’t convinced. An example was the time that Cashman approached Torre as he was making out his lineup.

      ‘We have a better chance against this pitcher with Betemit in the lineup instead of Phillips,’ Cashman said. Torre played Andy Phillips and kept Wilson Betemit on the bench.

      In 2011, Cashman revealed a lot about himself when he criticized the New York Mets for using Feliciano too much. The media shot back at ‘Cash,’ calling him hypocritical because he had been in charge when Torre overused Scott Proctor and other relief pitchers.

      Cashman defended himself by going after Torre.

      ‘If you want to get Joe Torre on the phone, you’ll know that I’m not a hypocrite,’ Cashman told the media. ‘I dealt with our pitching coach, I dealt with our manager, and we have new people here that utilize people a certain way now.’

      Yes – the way [Team Cashman]… dealt with [Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes]…”

    23. Mr. October
      April 14th, 2014 | 1:10 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      And this is completely irrelevant to my point, which was not about the title of this thread, but your response to it, which was to link an article calling the Yankee offense lifeless.
      And my point was that it’s way too early to judge what this team will or won’t be. I described making such and early judgment as silly.

      The $204-11 million offense has been largely lifeless, and there are those that believe this team is not what it should be, given the financial resources spent from 2005-2013, as of 2014; those people are entitled to their opinions as much as you are, whether you like it or not…

    24. Mr. October
      April 14th, 2014 | 1:36 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      As for Moore and the Rays, one injury to one starting pitcher is not equal to all the players the Yanks lost last season, some of them more than once, and for long periods of time. So no, the correct conclusion would be that they were not similar.

      All teams have injuries. Most teams have closer to $77 million to spend, than $210-40 million to spend. And the loss of a Moore or Cobb, or both, for an extended period of time is more signficant to a $77 million team than a $210-40 million team, or the financial resources of Team Cashman.

      Evan3457 wrote:

      You do realize that only two (Munson, Guidry) of the six players you named from the 70′s teams were products of the Yankee farm system, right? They also had Roy White, and in 1978, Jim Beattie, but of the teams that won the titles, they also had Gossage, Gullett and Hunter (free agents), plus Chambliss, Figueroa, Rivers, Dent, Blair, Healy, Tidrow, Lyle, Rivers, Johnson, who were acquired in trades.

      No kidding. The teams were built through the farm system, trades by “The Smiling Cobra,” and free agent acquisition.

      “… the Tigers have won their trades by a factor of more than 2-to-1 since Dombrowski was hired, for a surplus total of 104 wins over 11 years. That’s more than nine wins a year. Think about that: The Tigers have won roughly nine additional games every season under Dombrowski by using the trade market…”

      http://grantland.com/features/dave-dombrowski-detroit-tigers/

      “WARP via trade is an important determinant of GM performance and subsequent franchise success… At a minimum, I would have confidence in distinguishing the extremely strong traders (Dombrowski, Friedman…) from the very weak ones (… Cashman, Moore, Huntington)…”

      http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21393

      What exactly is Cashman actually good at, again? Oh, that’s right:

      “Brian Cashman is a slugger in the sack.

      … Louise Meanwell told The Post in a jailhouse interview that the Yankees general [moron] may look like a nerd, but he’s a skilled swordsman who bedded her on their very first date last April…

      In a wide-ranging Rikers Island sit-down, the woman accused of pulling off a $6,000 squeeze play on Cashman also claimed:

      He first started flirting with her in 2006 – as his wife, Mary, stood nearby – then kept in touch for years by sending her text messages.

      The money Cashman dropped into her Chase accounts was a birthday gift,’ rather than cash she asked him for to finance a ‘medical procedure.’

      … he had given her $18,000 to $20,000 to pay the rent on her TriBeCa pad as well as legal fees for a custody fight… with her ex-husband, Jason Bump.

      … The busty blonde said Cashman made his move almost immediately after meeting her in 2006 at the Ritz-Carlton in Boston. ‘I wish my wife wasn’t here,’ she said he whispered, with Mary Cashman in the same room. ‘You’re the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen.’ He handed Meanwell his business card and marveled at her British accent.

      ‘I was 29 at the time, and I thought, “What a perv,”‘ she said.

      The relationship that last week finally broke Cashman’s long-troubled marriage then simmered for years via texts, Meanwell said… She laughed at the memory of a bartender asking, “What are you doing with this old man?” when he spotted her out on the town with the balding baseball bigwig.

      The kooky blonde, who has a long history of harassing ex-lovers, is facing grand-larceny, harassment and stalking charges for allegedly squeezing big bucks out of the Bronx Bomber boss. She is being held on $200,000 bail on Rikers Island.

      Meanwell, 36, also is accused of inundating Cashman, 44, with calls and text messages and telling him she was carrying a love child conceived during what she said was a steamy 10-month affair. Sources said her mom… last month revealed to Cashman that her daughter had never been pregnant and that she has a history of concocting pregnancy tales to ex-lovers…

      Speaking of Cashman, Meanwell said, ‘I will not comment on whether I had an abortion, but I had a medical procedure… I did not have any other medical procedure after that.’ She even sniffed at the possibility of an abortion carrying a $6,000 price tag.

      Still, it’s only a fraction of what she asked Cashman for, authorities said…

      Meanwell insisted the money was nothing but a birthday gift. ‘If I’m extorting $6,000 from him, why would he take me out to dinner the next night?’ she asked. Mary Cashman – who previously suffered through her husband’s affair with a sexy Westchester soccer mom – filed for divorce the day after Meanwell’s arrest.

      Meanwell said Cashman had confided to her that his wife was ‘cold, unemotional and critical.’ Meanwell unloaded on Cashman’s ex-mistress, Kim Brennan, after last month launching a Facebook flame war with her. ‘She’s a slug and a home wrecker who tore apart that family,’ she said, insisting – with a straight face – ‘I would never do that to anyone.’

      She saved her strongest words for the man she once thought was ‘sweet and thoughtful.’ ‘He’s a womanizer caught with his pants down with multiple women, and he was scared his life would unravel,’ she said. ‘And that is why I am here.’ The scandal that exploded following her arrest, Meanwell said, is Cashman’s worst nightmare. ‘Everything he didn’t want to happen is happening right now,’ she said. ‘He wanted to shut me up.’”

      At least Cashman’s good for a laugh, too…

    25. KPOcala
      April 14th, 2014 | 10:36 pm

      @ Mr. October:No. You wouldn’t understand it.

    26. KPOcala
      April 14th, 2014 | 10:38 pm

      From Joel Sherman, for those who missed it. Or those who couldn’t understand it:

      In case you hadn’t noticed:
       While Michael Pineda has been thriving for the Yankees, Jesus Montero, heading into Monday, was hitting .200 with a .242 on-base percentage (but two homers) in his first eight games as a DH/first baseman for the Mariners’ Triple-A Tacoma team.

    27. Evan3457
      April 15th, 2014 | 12:30 am

      Mr. October wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      The $204-11 million offense has been largely lifeless, and there are those that believe this team is not what it should be, given the financial resources spent from 2005-2013, as of 2014; those people are entitled to their opinions as much as you are, whether you like it or not…

      It is WAY too early to say “largely lifeless”.

      Before tonight’s action this team was 2nd in the league in BAVG, 3rd in OPS and 3rd in OPS+. It is 7th in runs only because it has been disproportionately ineffective with runners in scoring position so far this season.

    28. Evan3457
      April 15th, 2014 | 12:31 am

      Mr. October wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      … Cashman, and only Cashman, is an idiot.
      Agreed.
      “… Cashman’s father, John Cashman, managed Kentucky’s Castleton Farms. The senior Cashman became friendly with George Steinbrenner, and his son Brian started working for the Yankees.
      Cashman and Torre increasingly disagreed with each other after the last world championship. With his 2005 contract, Cashman gained complete control of player decisions. He started to depend on computer statistics, sabermetrics and trying to emulate [Boston's] approach to winning…
      Cashman explained in Appel’s book why his approach was needed. ‘People used to think it was okay to smoke, or okay to drink during pregnancy. We learn as we go forward.’
      Hey, how many pregnant Yankees have you seen lately, Mr. Cashman?
      Torre listened, but wasn’t convinced. An example was the time that Cashman approached Torre as he was making out his lineup.
      ‘We have a better chance against this pitcher with Betemit in the lineup instead of Phillips,’ Cashman said. Torre played Andy Phillips and kept Wilson Betemit on the bench.
      In 2011, Cashman revealed a lot about himself when he criticized the New York Mets for using Feliciano too much. The media shot back at ‘Cash,’ calling him hypocritical because he had been in charge when Torre overused Scott Proctor and other relief pitchers.
      Cashman defended himself by going after Torre.
      ‘If you want to get Joe Torre on the phone, you’ll know that I’m not a hypocrite,’ Cashman told the media. ‘I dealt with our pitching coach, I dealt with our manager, and we have new people here that utilize people a certain way now.’
      Yes – the way [Team Cashman]… dealt with [Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes]…”

      Nothing here proves Cashman is an idiot, or anything like an idiot. He disagreed with Torre? Pffbbbbttt.

    29. Evan3457
      April 15th, 2014 | 12:46 am

      Mr. October wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      All teams have injuries. Most teams have closer to $77 million to spend, than $210-40 million to spend. And the loss of a Moore or Cobb, or both, for an extended period of time is more signficant to a $77 million team than a $210-40 million team, or the financial resources of Team Cashman.

      The loss of A Moore OR A Cobb would be more significant to the Rays, but not, in the aggregate, more significant that the loss of A-Rod AND Jeter AND Granderson AND Teixeira AND Youkillis AND Cervelli for a total of roughly 670 games (even after allowing each player between 5 and 15 games rest for the missed games, and in Cervelli’s case, 40 games of rest).

      Now, if the Rays lost Moore for the season, and Cobb for 2/3 of the season, and say, Archer for 2/3 of the season, then that would be about the same.

      No kidding. The teams were built through the farm system, trades by “The Smiling Cobra,” and free agent acquisition.

      Then, we agree.

      “… the Tigers have won their trades by a factor of more than 2-to-1 since Dombrowski was hired, for a surplus total of 104 wins over 11 years. That’s more than nine wins a year. Think about that: The Tigers have won roughly nine additional games every season under Dombrowski by using the trade market…”

      Then we agree that Dombrowki is a good GM/President.

      What exactly is Cashman actually good at, again?

      Oh, that’s right:
      “Brian Cashman is a blah blah blah

      More irrelevancy.

    30. Evan3457
      April 15th, 2014 | 12:47 am

      KPOcala wrote:

      From Joel Sherman, for those who missed it. Or those who couldn’t understand it:
      In case you hadn’t noticed:
       While Michael Pineda has been thriving for the Yankees, Jesus Montero, heading into Monday, was hitting .200 with a .242 on-base percentage (but two homers) in his first eight games as a DH/first baseman for the Mariners’ Triple-A Tacoma team.

      Way, way too early to declare victory on the Pineda/Montero trade, either. Let’s enjoy what Pineda’s done so far this year, and hope he can accomplish more of this. Then we’ll see where we are when the season’s over.

    31. LMJ229
      April 15th, 2014 | 1:13 pm

      redbug wrote:

      I think LMJ might have been referring to the lack of talent in home grown players. The 90′s teams were perfect combo’s of homegrown, trades and free agents.
      With very few exceptions, Cano is one, the Yanks haven’t had quality homegrown players under Cashman. Impact players have had to be bought.

      Thanks redbug. My busy schedule kept me from replying but you nailed it.

    32. LMJ229
      April 15th, 2014 | 1:28 pm

      Raf wrote:

      If a player posts a .300-30-100 season, does it matter if they’re homegrown, if they were traded for or if they were signed as a FA?

      It does matter. Do you actually believe that fans have the same affinity for Munson and Posada as they do for Martin and McCann? Is CC more beloved than Guidry and Pettitte? How about Texiera versus Mattingly? It does matter. If you think otherwise you are out of touch with reality.

    33. LMJ229
      April 15th, 2014 | 1:31 pm

      Raf wrote:

      If a player posts a .300-30-100 season, does it matter if they’re homegrown, if they were traded for or if they were signed as a FA?

      The problem is the Yanks don’t have any homegrown players that could put up those numbers. If they did we would have seen them last year. Last year is a perfect case in point for the lack of talent in our farm system.

    34. KPOcala
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:20 pm

      @ Evan3457:Absolutely correct. That was directed at “The Cashman Basher”, who would have used Montero’s (theoretical) success as “evidence” of Cashman getting fleeced again…….. ;)

    35. Mr. October
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:28 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Now, if the Rays lost Moore for the season, and Cobb for 2/3 of the season, and say, Archer for 2/3 of the season, then that would be about the same.

      Right: if the $77 million Rays lose three-fifths of their elite starting rotation for a substantial portion of the season, that will be the equivalent of a $237 million team losing: 1. a .230-hitting center fielder two-thirds of a season; 2. an injury-prone third baseman the team signed to a one-year contract; 3. a Cervelli; 4. a .250-hitting first baseman who had been in decline for years; and 5. a shortstop you yourself predicted would have a “substantial dropoff” on production at the age of 39 in 2013…

      With a rotation of Sabathia (4.78 E.R.A.), the 39-year old Kuroda (6.00+ E.R.A. Aug.-Oct., 2013), and the 41-year old Pettitte, Team Cashman was not going to win anything in 2013 anyway…

    36. Raf
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:32 pm

      LMJ229 wrote:

      It does matter.

      No it doesn’t. The Yankees won’t let fan reaction dictate player acquisition, nor should they. I can’t think of a team in MLB that would.

      Do you actually believe that fans have the same affinity for Munson and Posada as they do for Martin and McCann? Is CC more beloved than Guidry and Pettitte? How about Texiera versus Mattingly? It does matter.

      Do you think that fans had the same affinity for Munson that they did Posada? Is Guidry more beloved than Pettitte?

      Reggie Jackson had a candy bar named after him, twice. Dave Winfield was popular. Rickey Henderson too. Doc and Darryl and David Cone were pretty popular. Boggs and Clemens. Paul O’Neill.

      Fans will cheer or boo a player regardless of how they were acquired.

      Where has Bernie Williams been lately?

      Last year is a perfect case in point for the lack of talent in our farm system.

      The Yankees had a number of injuries to players at the minor league level. Look at their depth chart last season, see how many of those players were affected by injury.

    37. Mr. October
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:40 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      That was directed at “The Cashman Basher”, who would have used Montero’s (theoretical) success as “evidence” of Cashman getting fleeced again……..

      Yankees GM Brian Cashman Calls Michael Pineda ‘Massive Decision Gone Wrong’

      “… [New York Yankees Senior Vice President and general moron Brian] Cashman had some choice words about the move, even questioning his own decision making in the process. ‘This is a massive decision gone wrong right now,’ Cashman said… Cashman did take responsibility for the miscue…”

      http://nesn.com/2012/04/yankees-gm-brian-cashman-calls-michael-pineda-massive-decision-gone-wrong/

      “… ‘The focus should be on me…’ he said. ‘I’m responsible. I’m the decision-maker.’ Cashman said he, too, had wondered about the condition of Pineda’s shoulder during spring training, when he struggled to get his fastball above 90 mph on a consistent basis. ‘I asked him several times through an interpreter if he had ever been in an MRI tube…’ Cashman said. ‘Each time, the answer was the same. ‘Nunca.’ Never… ‘I’m devastated [,' Cashman, said.] I just hope everyone understands that every move I make is to improve this club, not hurt it. [I do mean well.]”

      http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7863696/new-york-yankees-gm-brian-cashman-calls-michael-pineda-deal-massive-decision-gone-wrong

    38. Evan3457
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:45 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      Now, if the Rays lost Moore for the season, and Cobb for 2/3 of the season, and say, Archer for 2/3 of the season, then that would be about the same.
      Right: if the $77 million Rays lose three-fifths of their elite starting rotation for a substantial portion of the season, that will be the equivalent of a $237 million team losing: 1. a .230-hitting center fielder two-thirds of a season; 2. an injury-prone third baseman the team signed to a one-year contract; 3. a Cervelli; 4. a .250-hitting first baseman who had been in decline for years; and 5. a shortstop you yourself predicted would have a “substantial dropoff” on production at the age of 39 in 2013…

      And the loss in WAR compared to what replaced them was about 11-12 WAR, or enough to win the wild card, if not the division.

      With a rotation of Sabathia (4.78 E.R.A.), the 39-year old Kuroda (6.00+ E.R.A. Aug.-Oct., 2013), and the 41-year old Pettitte, Team Cashman was not going to win anything in 2013 anyway…

      Would’ve won the wild card, if nothing else.

    39. Evan3457
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:47 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      KPOcala wrote:
      That was directed at “The Cashman Basher”, who would have used Montero’s (theoretical) success as “evidence” of Cashman getting fleeced again……..
      Yankees GM Brian Cashman Calls Michael Pineda ‘Massive Decision Gone Wrong’
      “… [New York Yankees Senior Vice President and general moron Brian] Cashman had some choice words about the move, even questioning his own decision making in the process. ‘This is a massive decision gone wrong right now,’ Cashman said… Cashman did take responsibility for the miscue…”
      http://nesn.com/2012/04/yankees-gm-brian-cashman-calls-michael-pineda-massive-decision-gone-wrong/
      “… ‘The focus should be on me…’ he said. ‘I’m responsible. I’m the decision-maker.’ Cashman said he, too, had wondered about the condition of Pineda’s shoulder during spring training, when he struggled to get his fastball above 90 mph on a consistent basis. ‘I asked him several times through an interpreter if he had ever been in an MRI tube…’ Cashman said. ‘Each time, the answer was the same. ‘Nunca.’ Never… ‘I’m devastated [,' Cashman, said.] I just hope everyone understands that every move I make is to improve this club, not hurt it. [I do mean well.]”
      http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7863696/new-york-yankees-gm-brian-cashman-calls-michael-pineda-deal-massive-decision-gone-wrong

      You might have to drop this one from your catalogue. Long, long way to go, though.

    40. Mr. October
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:52 pm

      Raf wrote:

      No it doesn’t.

      Yes it does – and Team Cashman has very little payroll flexibility as a result of it… It’s a lot easier to make it to the postseason and lose an LDS with a $237-40 million payroll and the oldest roster in MLB, than it is with a $204-11 million payroll and the oldest roster in MLB…

      Raf wrote:

      Where has Bernie Williams been lately?

      Great point…

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Nothing here proves Cashman is an idiot…

      What about this:

      “Yankees GM Brian Cashman is a ‘manchild’ who conspired against former mistress: lawsuit

      … ‘The gang’s plan, while shocking and outrageous, seemed to be concocted and executed by the Three Stooges rather than a physician, a law firm and a sports executive,’ the suit claims…”

      http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/kooky-cashman-claim-yanks-gm-plotted-mistress-suit-claims-article-1.1235442

      Or this:

      “Dear Brian Cashman, I Am Wearing Your Pajama Pants In Your Mistress’s Living Room…”

      http://deadspin.com/5881346/dear-brian-cashman-i-am-wearing-your-pajama-pants-in-your-mistresss-living-room

    41. Mr. October
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:55 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      Would’ve won the wild card, if nothing else.

      A $237.5 million wildcard team… In your own words, that would make them, or any team not winning a “title,” “losers…”

    42. MJ Recanati
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:55 pm

      LMJ229 wrote:

      It does matter. Do you actually believe that fans have the same affinity for Munson and Posada as they do for Martin and McCann? It does matter. If you think otherwise you are out of touch with reality.

      You seem to be conflating two separate issues.

      If a player posts a .300-30-100 season, it doesn’t matter if they’re homegrown, if they were traded, or if they were signed as a free agent. It may change the way some fans perceive them/feel about them but it doesn’t impact the team at all. The production is what matters, not the story of how they came to the team.

    43. Evan3457
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:58 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      Would’ve won the wild card, if nothing else.
      A $237.5 million wildcard team… In your own words, that would make them, or any team not winning a “title,” “losers…”

      If.

      If.

      Silly.

    44. Evan3457
      April 15th, 2014 | 2:59 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      What about this:
      “Yankees GM Brian Cashman…blah…blah…blah…mistresss-living-room

      Nope.

    45. Mr. October
      April 15th, 2014 | 3:21 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      You seem to be conflating two separate issues.
      If a player posts a .300-30-100 season, it doesn’t matter if they’re homegrown, if they were traded, or if they were signed as a free agent. It may change the way some fans perceive them/feel about them but it doesn’t impact the team at all. The production is what matters, not the story of how they came to the team.

      No one is conflating two separate issues…. It does matter if an organzation can not produce talent at the minor league level in terms of long-term competitivess. How many A.L. Pennants has Team Cashman won since 2005 with all of it’s spending on free agency? One. $2.0-2.5 billion spent to play in only 10 A.L.C.S. games, and win only 4 of them, in the last NINE (9) years…

      Evan3457 wrote:

      If.

      If.

      Silly.

      “The pot calling the kettle, ‘black’…” ”

      Evan3457 wrote:


      If [Team Cashman] had hit better in key spots in the 2005 ALDS… If [Team Cashman] had hit better in key spots in the 2006 ALDS… If [Team Cashman] had hit better in key spots in the 2007 ALDS… If [Team Cashman] had not had key injuries in 2008… If [Team Cashman] had hit better in key spots in the 2010 ALCS… If [Team Cashman] had hit better in key spots in the 2011 ALDS… If [Team Cashman] had hit better in key spots in the 2012 ALCS…

    46. Mr. October
      April 15th, 2014 | 4:07 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      You have a selective memory when it suits your “raison d’etre”, but that memory gets oh so dim, when you do any real “comparisons” with Cashman’s peers.

      “Peers?”

      “… In a League of His Own

      Yankees — Brian Cashman (+8.3:$4.6M) vs (+11.4:$2.9M)

      Cashman has not been a successful trader, losing 3.2 WARP a year over the same 15-year period as Beane. Unlike Beane… Cashman paid an above-market $4.6M for his WARP versus $2.9M paid by his trading partners and $2.6M for Beane. Since 2000, the average MLB payroll has been $104M and the Yankees’ has been $229M, so Cashman can and has made up trading deficits via free agency…”

      “Comparison?”

      “WARP via trade is an important determinant of GM performance and subsequent franchise success… At a minimum, I would have confidence in distinguishing the extremely strong traders (Dombrowski, Friedman…) from the very weak ones (Bavasi, Cashman…)”

      @ KPOcala:
      Timothy Malone of Baseball Prospectus must have a selective memory when it suits his “raison d’etre,” too…

    47. LMJ229
      April 15th, 2014 | 10:52 pm

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      You seem to be conflating two separate issues.
      If a player posts a .300-30-100 season, it doesn’t matter if they’re homegrown, if they were traded, or if they were signed as a free agent. It may change the way some fans perceive them/feel about them but it doesn’t impact the team at all. The production is what matters, not the story of how they came to the team.

      All things being equal, wouldn’t you rather have the homegrown player?

    48. Evan3457
      April 16th, 2014 | 12:32 am

      LMJ229 wrote:

      MJ Recanati wrote:
      You seem to be conflating two separate issues.
      If a player posts a .300-30-100 season, it doesn’t matter if they’re homegrown, if they were traded, or if they were signed as a free agent. It may change the way some fans perceive them/feel about them but it doesn’t impact the team at all. The production is what matters, not the story of how they came to the team.
      All things being equal, wouldn’t you rather have the homegrown player?

      I would, but in the end, does it really matter that of the lineup of the 1977-8 Champion Yankees, only Munson and White were homegrown, and no player drafted under Steinbrenner (or in fact, in the previous 9 years) was a key member of that lineup? Same for 4 out of 5 members of the rotation (except Guidry was also drafted Before Steinbrenner, but in 1971), and that neither Tidrow nor Lyle was a product of the farm system?

    49. KPOcala
      April 16th, 2014 | 1:37 am

      The loss of pitchers Matt Moore, Alex Cobb, and Jeremy Hellickson has exposed the fact that the Rays are thin on pitching depth in their system, says Peter Gammons of GammonsDaily.com (Twitter links). Gammons notes that, despite having five of the first 79 picks in the 2010 draft and a whopping ten of the first 60 choices in 2011, the only major leaguer to have emerged from those additions is infielder Derek Dietrich (who, of course, has since been dealt for fellow infielder Yunel Escobar).

      Imagine if Cashman had this “damning indictment of incompetence”? This site would be “overwhelmed” and NYC, would cease to exists, as would America itself………..

    50. MJ Recanati
      April 16th, 2014 | 8:51 am

      LMJ229 wrote:

      ll things being equal, wouldn’t you rather have the homegrown player?

      Doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. Two of my favorite players of all time are Paul O’Neill and Hideki Matsui. Neither are “homegrown” but both were excellent players.

    51. Mr. October
      April 16th, 2014 | 2:25 pm

      KPOcala wrote:

      Imagine if Cashman had this “damning indictment of incompetence”? This site would be “overwhelmed” and NYC, would cease to exists, as would America itself……

      LOL… Let’s see this idiot (http://deadspin.com/5845140/the-photos-of-yankees-gm-brian-cashman-that-broke-up-a-marriage) develop a Moore, Cobb, and Hellickson (or win the same amount of games, and same amount of AL Pennants, in six years with an average payroll of $60 million, as Friedman has from 2008-13) before we damn him with an indictment of incompetence of not having the depth in their system to replace a Moore, Cobb, or Hellickson…

    52. Mr. October
      April 16th, 2014 | 4:09 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      … in the end, does it really matter that of the lineup of the 1977-8 Champion Yankees, only Munson and White were homegrown… neither Tidrow nor Lyle was a product of the farm system…

      “March 22, 1972: Sparky Lyle from Red Sox for Danny Cater and Mario Guerrero

      Lyle was Boston’s relief ace from his sophomore campaign in 1968 until he was traded to the Yankees during spring training in 1972. In four straight years with the BoSox, he finished in the top seven in the AL in saves.

      … the Yankees stole Lyle. He pitched seven seasons in the Bronx, going 57-40 with a 2.41 ERA while compiling 141 saves. He was a three-time All-Star and led the AL in saves twice. In his first season with the Yankees, he had a minuscule 1.92 ERA and finished third in the MVP voting, which no doubt made Bostonians wince… Lyle also won the AL Cy Young Award in 1977, the first AL reliever to do so.”

      Mario Guerrero: “homegrown.”

      “Nov. 27, 1972: Graig Nettles and Gerry Moses from Indians for John Ellis, Charlie Spikes, Rusty Torres and Jerry Kenny

      In 11 seasons in the Bronx, Nettles was a six-time All-Star, won Gold Gloves in 1977 and 1978, and was a key to the Yankees’ World Series titles in 1977 and 1978. During that time, he hit 240 home runs, leading the AL in 1976 with 32. He’d go on to set an AL record for third basemen by hitting 319 home runs.

      You could argue that the Yankees wouldn’t have won it all in 1977 without Nettles. He hit .255 with 37 home runs and 107 RBI, finishing the season with a .496 slugging percentage. Those slugging numbers were all career highs.

      In return the Yankees didn’t give up much. Kenny played in just a handful of games for the Indians. Torres battled to hit over the Mendoza line – and lost. Ellis played three decent seasons in Cleveland before he was dealt to the Rangers. Spikes hit 45 homers and drove in 153 runs in his first two seasons with Cleveland, but his career headed way, way south after that.

      John Ellis: “homegrown.”

      “Dec. 11, 1975: Willie Randolph, Ken Brett and Dock Ellis from Pirates for Doc Medich

      In Medich, the Yankees didn’t give up much; he went 49-40 in his three full seasons in the Bronx, and was an average pitcher. After leaving the Yankees, he went on to have an average career with several teams.

      For mediocrity, the Yankees got Randolph, who became their regular second baseman for 13 seasons and was a five-time All-Star. Randolph could get on base (he led the league in walks in 1980 and was usually in the top 10), steal (he stole 30+ each season between 1978-1980), and he always had a solid, if unspectacular, batting average.

      They also got Dock Ellis, who gave them one terrific season in 1976, going 17-8 with a 3.19 ERA before the Yankees dealt him to Texas in 1977.”

      Doc Medich: “homegrown.”

      “April 27, 1974: Yankees receive first baseman Chris Chambliss and right-handers Dick Tidrow and Cecil Upshaw from Indians for left-hander Fritz Peterson and right-handers Steve Kline, Fred Beene and Tom Buskey.

      Chambliss hit one of the most dramatic home runs in Yankees history, his pennant-winning drive off the Royals’ Mark Littell in Game 5 of the 1976 AL Championship Series and was a solid presence at first base for the Bombers from 1974-79. In seven seasons with New York, Chambliss hit .282 with 79 homers, winning two World Series titles and driving in at least 90 runs from 1976-78.

      Tidrow was useful for the Yanks, going 41-33 with a 3.61 ERA in 211 games from 1974-79 as a setup reliever and starter… The deal… turned out to be a steal for the Yankees. None of the four pitchers dealt to the Indians wound up lasting more than four seasons there.”

      Fritz Peterson: “homegrown.”

    53. Evan3457
      April 16th, 2014 | 6:36 pm

      Mr. October wrote:

      Evan3457 wrote:
      … in the end, does it really matter that of the lineup of the 1977-8 Champion Yankees, only Munson and White were homegrown… neither Tidrow nor Lyle was a product of the farm system…
      “March 22, 1972: Sparky Lyle from Red Sox for Danny Cater and Mario Guerrero
      Lyle was Boston’s relief ace from his sophomore campaign in 1968 until he was traded to the Yankees during spring training in 1972. In four straight years with the BoSox, he finished in the top seven in the AL in saves.
      … the Yankees stole Lyle. He pitched seven seasons in the Bronx, going 57-40 with a 2.41 ERA while compiling 141 saves. He was a three-time All-Star and led the AL in saves twice. In his first season with the Yankees, he had a minuscule 1.92 ERA and finished third in the MVP voting, which no doubt made Bostonians wince… Lyle also won the AL Cy Young Award in 1977, the first AL reliever to do so.”
      Mario Guerrero: “homegrown.”
      “Nov. 27, 1972: Graig Nettles and Gerry Moses from Indians for John Ellis, Charlie Spikes, Rusty Torres and Jerry Kenny
      In 11 seasons in the Bronx, Nettles was a six-time All-Star, won Gold Gloves in 1977 and 1978, and was a key to the Yankees’ World Series titles in 1977 and 1978. During that time, he hit 240 home runs, leading the AL in 1976 with 32. He’d go on to set an AL record for third basemen by hitting 319 home runs.
      You could argue that the Yankees wouldn’t have won it all in 1977 without Nettles. He hit .255 with 37 home runs and 107 RBI, finishing the season with a .496 slugging percentage. Those slugging numbers were all career highs.
      In return the Yankees didn’t give up much. Kenny played in just a handful of games for the Indians. Torres battled to hit over the Mendoza line – and lost. Ellis played three decent seasons in Cleveland before he was dealt to the Rangers. Spikes hit 45 homers and drove in 153 runs in his first two seasons with Cleveland, but his career headed way, way south after that.
      John Ellis: “homegrown.”

      ==============================================
      And these 3 trades were made in the pre-George era, and therefore, pre-Gabe Paul
      ===========================================================

      “Dec. 11, 1975: Willie Randolph, Ken Brett and Dock Ellis from Pirates for Doc Medich
      In Medich, the Yankees didn’t give up much; he went 49-40 in his three full seasons in the Bronx, and was an average pitcher. After leaving the Yankees, he went on to have an average career with several teams.
      For mediocrity, the Yankees got Randolph, who became their regular second baseman for 13 seasons and was a five-time All-Star. Randolph could get on base (he led the league in walks in 1980 and was usually in the top 10), steal (he stole 30+ each season between 1978-1980), and he always had a solid, if unspectacular, batting average.
      They also got Dock Ellis, who gave them one terrific season in 1976, going 17-8 with a 3.19 ERA before the Yankees dealt him to Texas in 1977.”
      Doc Medich: “homegrown.”
      “April 27, 1974: Yankees receive first baseman Chris Chambliss and right-handers Dick Tidrow and Cecil Upshaw from Indians for left-hander Fritz Peterson and right-handers Steve Kline, Fred Beene and Tom Buskey.
      Chambliss hit one of the most dramatic home runs in Yankees history, his pennant-winning drive off the Royals’ Mark Littell in Game 5 of the 1976 AL Championship Series and was a solid presence at first base for the Bombers from 1974-79. In seven seasons with New York, Chambliss hit .282 with 79 homers, winning two World Series titles and driving in at least 90 runs from 1976-78.
      Tidrow was useful for the Yanks, going 41-33 with a 3.61 ERA in 211 games from 1974-79 as a setup reliever and starter… The deal… turned out to be a steal for the Yankees. None of the four pitchers dealt to the Indians wound up lasting more than four seasons there.”
      Fritz Peterson: “homegrown.”

      =============================================
      And all of this is besides the point. As usual.

    54. Mr. October
      April 16th, 2014 | 8:58 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      … in the end, does it really matter that of the lineup of the 1977-8 Champion Yankees, only Munson and White were homegrown… neither Tidrow nor Lyle was a product of the farm system…

      Continued…

      “April 5, 1977: Yankees receive shortstop Bucky Dent from the White Sox for outfielder Oscar Gamble, and right-handers LaMarr Hoyt and Bob Polinsky… Dent finished second in AL Rookie of the Year voting in 1974 and was an All-Star in 1975 with the White Sox… Dent shined in the postseason, batting .417 (10-24) with seven RBI in the World Series to earn MVP honors. He was later named to two All-Star teams with the Yankees in 1980 and 1981. Hoyt became one of the top pitchers in baseball, leading the AL with 19 wins in 1982. The following season, he led the league with 24 wins and won the AL Cy Young Award… He retired at the age of 31 with a career record of 98-68… Polinsky remained in the minors and never pitched in the major leagues.”

      LaMarr Hoyt and Bob Polinsky: “homegrown.”

      “October 22, 1974: Yankees receive outfielder Bobby Bonds for outfielder Bobby Murcer… December 11, 1975: Yankees receive outfielder Mickey Rivers and right-hander Ed Figueroa for Bobby Bonds… Rivers was a leadoff hitter in his four years in New York, batting .297 and averaging 23 doubles per season. He also hit .398 (22-for-57) in three ALCS meetings against Kansas City. Rivers was an All-Star in 1976 and finished third in the AL MVP voting…

      Even though Ed Figueroa was 0-4 in seven postseason starts, his pitching in the regular season helped get the Yankees to October baseball. In 1976, he led New York with 19 wins. Two years later, he was 7-7 in mid-July but went 13-2 to finish the season at 20-9… Figueroa was 62-39 in his five Yankee seasons…”

      Bobby Murcer: “homegrown.”

      1977 World Series Game 1 lineup:

      Rivers
      Randolph
      Munson
      Jackson
      Chambliss
      Nettles
      Piniella
      Dent
      Gullet

      MJ Recanati wrote:

      Doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. Two of my favorite players of all time are Paul O’Neill…

      Nov. 3, 1992: Paul O’Neill and Joe DeBarry traded from Cincinnati to New York for Roberto Kelly… This trade not only helped provide a winning season, but four more World Series titles as well. O’Neill was a productive player in Cincinnati, but he never hit over .300 and never had a 100 RBI season. In his first season in pinstripes, he hit .311, the first of six consecutive .300 seasons. He also won the batting title with a .359 average in the strike-shortened 1994 season. O’Neill had four straight 100-plus RBI seasons from 1997-2000. In his nine Yankee seasons, he batted .305 and averaged 21 home runs and 95 RBI. He was also named to four All-Star teams… Roberto Kelly was the lone Yankees All-Star representative in 1992. He was also an All-Star in Cincinnati in 1993, when he batted .319 with nine home runs and 35 RBI. Kelly was traded the following season to Atlanta and played for five more teams before returning to the Yankees as a free agent for the 2000 season…”

      Roberto Kelly: “homegrown.”

      @ Raf:
      Who needs a farm system? Baseball’s nothing but a crapshoot anyway…

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